to be in disbelief that this is being shown?

[RydellHigh]

Lady Gaga's new vid...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ95z6ywcBY&feature=PlayList&p=C4B9C7326E087E89&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL& index=1

I personally love Lady Gaga, but felt very uncomfortable when this came on the tv today, my little sister was visiting and I had to switch it over. I watched the video online and loved it, but I can't believe they are showing it during the day. The only thing missing from the edited version is the swearing and the close up of her lady bits!

World gone mad

I love it though.

bitofun
how is porn (which this video isn't) damaging children ?
have yours shrivelled and curled up in a corner yelling ,"mummy i'm scared" then

Oh, our parents definitely moaned about pop stuff being inappropriate- remember Frankie Says Relax?...there is a strong element in all of this to some of us turning into gimmers

I'm not arsed about Lady Gaga personally- my youngest (SN) doesn't watch videos and never will, but loves the tunes and will never understand the lyrics, so it won't do her any harm at all personally. My eldest (13) loathes Lady Gaga and thinks she's irritating and not cool- but I guess she is still being indirectly damaged by all this sort of stuff dominating the prevailing culture, although I am obviously trying to bring her up to have respect for herself etc etc.

However, I still think that there is a debate to be had about the general porn-sleaze vibe in popular culture becoming much more prevalent than it has ever been before, and how this could be creating a generation who are fundamentally alienated from any genuine sexual expression, creativity and intimacy, because all they know is the narrow definition of what's "hot" which has been packaged and sold to them right from the age they are old enough to watch music tv. And I find that rather sad.

the song is shit

dunno why Beyonce got mixed up with this...she doesn't exactly need the shock value like Gaga does

Justmarie-One video won't do much, sure. But it's not hard to see how the cumulative effect of this sort of stuff over years can be harmful, is it?

Surveys of teenage girls have shown that many of them now think anal sex is completely ordinary and par for the course, and if they don't let their boyfriends do it they aren't doing it right. Boys increasingly see normal female bodies with hair as disgusting etc etc. this is all the trickle-down effect of the pornification of the mainstream, massively increased by the internet age blah blah blah.

Fifty Pence or whatever he's called is obviously deeply sexist, and I'm not holding Gaga up as the example of all that is wrong- but she is an interesting case for discussion precisely because she is sold as EMPOWERING herself through her sexuality. Is that really all the power we want girls to think they have? "Look at me, check me out, I'm hot, aren't I, aren't I?" Honestly, there are many many threads about feminism, about porn, and about what, if anything, we think about all this. You should read them.

Gaga aside, there seems to be this vibe on Mumsnet that women are only allowed certain fantasies and I'm really struggling with this as a concept.

There are several of us who say we find a video featuring two women kissing to be exciting and enjoyablet to watch, for example.

There are several of us who say we enjoy watching a performer wearing sexy clothes.

But the most ardent feminists are telling us what? That we're poor misled lambs who aren't in charge of our own sexualities? That we've been conditioned by men to find these things exciting and we only do it to please men?

That to me is the most anti-feminist statement I can imagine.

I'd rather have all the Madonna 'Sex' books in the world than a bunch of Whitehouses telling me I'm wrong for enjoying or being turned on by something.

Carmen....there's a vibe on mumsnet that women aren't allowed to enjoy anything unless it's a speech by Clare Short..

Seriously. What is an acceptable sexual fantasy for women?

I've always found those books and videos 'marketed' at women to be about as erotic as a donkey ride in Bridlington.

Am I deluded if I like Rocky Horror, burlesque, bdsm, Lady Gaga... why? Because their costumes and imagery are from 'porn culture'?

Am I only allowed to watch videos with hairy-legged lesbians with scrubbed faces and white pants?

heehee @ Clare Short

Carmen- I'm not one of those people you know, I am all for people developing their own real and wonderful erotic imaginations which are unique to them. What I am uncomfortable with is the packaging and selling of sexuality to the point where we are being robbed of steak dinners and flogged the erotic equivalent of Maccy-D's over and over again. It's de-humanising and depressing.

Clare Short

I think it is aimed at children because of the type of music it is. It is synthesized pop music, and very similar, some songs almost identical to, the Europop genre. The main audience for that kind of music has always been children. Reviews of her shows in Australia have commented on the high numbers of children in the audience.

I am not surprised that BOF's 13 year old doesn't listen to it - she's probably a bit old. My DD is 8 and loves Lady Gaga who is very popular at her primary school. She has friends who are going to see her in concert. I don't know any adults or older teens who listen to her music. My niece (15) considers herself too old to listen to lady Gaga.

I would have thought her audience was similar to the audience of Take That in the early '90's - clubbers being ironic and children and sometimes their mums.

There are some good things about lady Gaga - my DD loves the theatricality and the oddness, but it seems straightforward.. if any of her videos are not suitable for children, they shouldn't be aired before the watershed and they should not be aired in public places.

If she considered herself an entertainer of adults, she could make her shows over 18 only, but she doesn't.

Absolutely agree with you, BoF

But Gaga is different. She just is. Madonna was too and I'm not really a massive fan of her, but I do think she was a much stronger role model than all the Ashlee Simpsons and Taylor Swifts in the world.

"I would have thought her audience was similar to the audience of Take That in the early '90's - clubbers being ironic and children and sometimes their mums."
agree with MillyR, most other people would find Gaga uncool and manufactured and would not want to follow anything that is hyped

That's hilarious. So I'm now desperately immature for liking Lady Gaga's music because it is 'uncool.'

What's an appropriate adult entertainer? Michael fucking Buble?

nobody is saying that anything is inappropriate, everyone likes different things. I just don't know many adults who like Gaga. Buble is crap IMO, but others like him.

Interesting debate -

I liked Bad Romance but GaGa seems too much of a try hard these days.

DD1 (and now me) can't stop singing Rhianna's new song 'Rude Boy' which is about a girl who wants to get F*'d royally and is taunting her prospective mate about whether his cock is going to be big enough to do the job properly.

To hear your 7 year old singing that is worrying to say the least.

Feel like one of the 50's parents who were horrified when Elvis first arrived

I love it, and I love Lady Gaga, more with every song and video. This woman must surely be a lesbian icon.

I love the costumes, the tattooed women dancing, it's as anti porn as you can get, they are all different ages, some muscled, some not, different ethnicities, some sporting a very dyke-y look (which I love) none of them are sporting the 'I am sooo tiny cos I have an eating disorder but I have a huuuuuge boob job' that is so prevalent 'traditionally' in mainstream porn.

Women in mainstream porn do not have attitude, or opinions (scares the blokes!) The women in this video do - and it's sexy, aimed more at women than men if you ask me.

And I nearly wet myself at the 'smoking' sunglasses. Genius!

Carmen, that's all well and good, of course women are allowed to have their own sexual fantasies, but you can't have it both ways. If women present themselves like that then don't be surprised/offended by ads where men think it's OK to treat women like that. Let us not forget that the Gaga video is created not by lady gaga but by a man; it's his gaze, his fantasy, not hers, that we are seeing.

I'm an adult and I like Lady Gaga. She's funny and she's cool, like Prince was. I don't have a problem with a bit of manufactured, tbh. I think we get terribly sniffy about what we consider to be "proper" music. Mowtown and plenty of other 60s/70s music was manufactured - so we get all prissy about that?

Could someone give an example or two of some unmanufactured pop music, please? Because I'm seriously struggling to think of any - aside from some of the worthy shoe-gazers I used to watch in the 80s and some of them were dreadful.

you're right the majority is manufactured. What I would probably class as unmanufactured would be Janis Joplin, Hendrix, Cream, Chrissie Hynde, Rolling Stones, early Presley Sun Sessions, Patti Smith but I may be wrong

i said this on another thread but read that she spend years perfecting her look whilst taking cocaine in her bedroom. shows as well if you ask me.

i think she's a prat personally.

Can't really see the difference between that and Madonna's "Justify my Love" from what, 15 years ago?

It's all been done before [yawn].

Although I did find the product placement very offensive.

Kerry wasn't it you complaining about the Pepsi ad the other day? But you don't mind this?

just watched Janis Joplin on youtube doing "Ball and Chain", reminded me what a giant she was, no need to prance around in her underwear to get noticed, just sheer talent. Looks to me like things have gone backwards.

Even if Lady Gaga says she is making some kind of social commentary this should not be shown on day-time TV. I am utterly stunned by some of the stuff being shown on TV these days, especially music videos. I absolutely hate the new Rianna video, however mesmerising it is. The Pornification of society is totally evident in this stuff. I think the producers and musicians alike need to take some responsibility for the impact they have on everyone who sees it.