to be in disbelief that this is being shown?

[RydellHigh]

Lady Gaga's new vid...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ95z6ywcBY&feature=PlayList&p=C4B9C7326E087E89&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL& index=1

I personally love Lady Gaga, but felt very uncomfortable when this came on the tv today, my little sister was visiting and I had to switch it over. I watched the video online and loved it, but I can't believe they are showing it during the day. The only thing missing from the edited version is the swearing and the close up of her lady bits!

World gone mad

I love it though.

Of course the media influences people. We wouldn't have advertising if it didn't.

some films are more likely to influence people negatively. Tom and Jerry is not in the same category. The constant drip drip of negative anti-social messages will cause people to change their behaviour to different degrees. Very few will end up killing, but some will. Many others will have become desensitised to a certain degree. The portrayal of women as sexual objects will influence how women are seen by men and it will affect different men to different degrees.

I think you have to take into account the people committing the acts more, blaming it on a film is just making a scapegoat out of it.

so just what sort of possible influence are some of you worried this video may exert?

I think we disagree about the effect that films can have. I think media can awaken and provoke violent instincts in certain people that they were not aware of. If they had never been exposed to such media then some of these urges would never have become manifest. I believe that certain media can have an evil effect on certain people. When society socialises its members, it inculcates good behaviour, but if anti-social messages become the norm then certain members of society will go astray.

Lady Gaga is clearly trashy disposible pop which is absolutely aimed at kids in its theatre and repetitive catchy melodies etc, not to mention its constant exposure in pop tv channels and on mainstream radio. It's certainly not aimed at an adult market, which is traditionally a bit more discerning. Yet the themes in this sort of pop are clearly adult and steeped in porn culture. So I agree with dittany and others on this one and feel it gives off some pretty unpleasant and inappropriate messages to children. But hey, the dollar rules, right?

BOF I've not really heard of Lady Gaga before this (no TV, no radio), but watching that and a couple of other videos, is it really aimed at kids?? That's fucked if it is. I'd have thought the videos were squarely aimed at the adult market.

this video glamorised crime, prisons, female fighting in the prison, poisoning, killing and anti-social behaviour. It also portrayed the women in their underwear as if prison was a blast. It also portrayed women as sex objects for male viewers' gratification. The underlying message of the video, aimed at young people, is that these things are cool and empowering. One way of dealing with "motherfuckers" is to use poison and that is cool as they cough and choke to death while the music plays. These fantasies of empowerment are dangerous lies, because in reality the consequences would not be simply driving off in a "Pussy Wagon", having just come out of prison. Young people who might laugh along and high-five with Gaga in the video are being desensitised to these anti-social messages.

Kaloki, I suppose I'm just thinking that this sort of music is part of your average Now That's What I Call Music-type compilation that (from my experience) nine year olds jig about to in the back of the car when it's on the radio. Whereas 25+ types tend to get into indie non-chart stuff, or go retro or something in their tastes.

Perhaps it is more accurate to say that this sort of stuff is aimed at divesting all of us of our money- the kids' films that do best also have the in-jokes that only adults get, so they end up doing well at the box-office.

I remember loving Grease as a kid, but the sexual references went right over my head. I suppose the sad thing with this stuff is that it isn't just the odd reference- it's the whole raison d'etre of the videos

Bottom line is that it's all about the bottom line.

I love Gaga, have seen her live and enjoy her costumes, music, dance moves and so on. She campaigns hard for gay rights and argues on the side of the 'misfits' and those who feel lonely. She spoke a lot about these issues in her show.

Telephone is massively tongue in cheek, the product placements so blatant they're funny.

But I have a genuine question here... what IS acceptable for women to fantasise about? I object to being told I am buying into a 'male' fantasy. Why on earth is Gaga kissing a woman a purely male fantasy? It's a bit demeaning to be told my fantasies aren't my own, I'm just building them on what men have told me I should be.

I'm not naive. But I think Gaga is a great model for individuality and female strength. She works incredibly hard and her videos have all been miles apart from all the bland shit out there.

I have daughters, I hate the identikit Barbie culture in America and can't watch all the idiot women on Next Top Model, The Bachelor etc. I hate misogynistic rap lyrics. I teach my girls about Amelia Earhart, Michelle Obama, Rosa Parks, whatever.

But I can't help feeling this isn't about feminism. There's a portion of Mumsnet that seems to be becoming Mary Whitehousenet.

Some people are also taking it incredibly literally. Do you get so uptight about the use of drugs in Alice in Wonderland, the poisoning in Sleeping Beauty, the imprisonment in Rapunzel...? Murder, restraint, poison, treachery, seduction etc. etc. are all pretty common literary devices and have been around for centuries.

At the risk of sounding like a complete curmudgeonly old fart, I found it most shocking when Beyonce throws litter out of her car. That to me is a really bad message to give to kids (and I'm only half joking).

Ah! Lady GaGa.

Can just see the initial record company interviews.

"You are blonde (I think), you can sing but erm... yeah.,... there are millions out there like you love. Hmm! What can we do....... I know ..... we'll say you're really eccentric and dress you in outlandish clothes. This here is

Kerry and Carmen both made a similar point, that Gaga is empowered, in control, it is her sexual fantasy.

Even if that were true, and the whole thing was not dreamed up by some smug, patronising marketing executive at the record company, is that what being a woman in control means today?

Is this the message that we want to send to our daughters - to be cool and empowered you have to dance around in your knickers, kissing other women, being violent.

And where does that leave our sons? They are depicted in this video as the misogynistic rappers who abuse women.

Vicar
I am sorry for what you have been through, but you are one of the lucky ones. You were blessed with enough courage and fortitude to pull yourself out of the mileau that you were brought up in, and make a decent life for yourself and your children. Many victims of child abuse do not manage to do that, as we are well aware.

This video is not going to send your DC out to audition for a lap dance job, but it continues the trend of making porn acceptable in mainstream media. That is what is damaging, the behaviour in this video is seen as normal.

But hold on... why is there an assumption that she has no artistic direction in her video?

What will it take for a woman to convince you that SHE is coming up with the goods?

It seems incredibly misogynistic to assume that she is incapable of that and that she is just a talentless manipulated puppet. From what I've read of her interviews and seen in her show, she's a very smart and talented lady and her personality comes across. Yes, of course there are some manufactured elements but you can't fake it that much (and if she IS faking it that much, there's some pretty strong talent right there).

Secondly, I still want to know what is an acceptable female fantasy? Am I not allowed to enjoy the sight of two women kissing because it's a stereotypically male fantasy?

The video is entertainment. It kept me watching for ten minutes. Her costumes are great. There's plenty of stagecraft and humour. Of course it's not suitable for children. But I don't think there's anything dark and sinister about it. On the other hand, I think we seriously need to question Hollywood and the size zero, botoxed, expressionless output that is turning women into inanimate placeholders. But Gaga comes across as so, so different from any of them in interviews. She's never bland.

lady gaga is shit, rubbish crap would turn it over for that reason! hasnt madonna done this all before? i find the rap videos worse where jaz and his pals just produce vidioes of them with hundreds of scantily dressed women, if i could sing or was as famous as one of them i would have loads of bare chested men in my vids!

Love her

I have no idea if it was Gaga's idea or not. Perhaps it was, and I am completely off base.

I don't know enough about what women want in their fantasies/porn but that video did not titillate me. It was too violent (or the threat of violence was too present). Not saying that no woman would find it a turn on, it was just not for me.

And tbh, it was all just too reminiscent of the male based pornos. I don't think that it was made for women.

Well i thought the video was shocking. WTF is the point of it all? It's not even a good song. Ah - maybe that is the point of the video. To cover up a not very good song. I was disappointed in Beyonce too. Thought she would have more respect for herself and her audience to be part of this cheap shock-jock crap.

My sis and BIL bought my niece a ticket to the recent Lady Gaga concert. BIL took her. He said the audience was mainly two camps. People dressed up like LadyGaga and kids with parents. So kids are her audience and she must know that. And she peddles this sort of crap.

And how anyone can say that this in any way empowers women is beyond me. It is not empowering women in anyway.

But if you say you can't be empowering in your knickers, you are arguing that nudity somehow weakens the woman.

Nudity, provocativeness and sexuality aren't automatically objectifying. If she wants to use them in her act, I don't see a problem.

Besides which, her video is there primarily to entertain and look pretty. Humans naturally enjoy looking at other humans, especially when they are wearing eyecatching or interesting costumes. I like looking at her in her knickers. She looks great! Her 'knickers' don't tend to be generic page three girl knickers anyway. At the gig I went to, loads of people had dressed up as her, very recognisably. Her looks are pretty striking and individual.

What is offensive to me is the portrayal of a woman as a mindless, unthinking doll. And yes, many videos are guilty of that, especially in the hip-hop genre.

I really don't think Gaga is mindless though.