to be in disbelief that this is being shown?

[RydellHigh]

Lady Gaga's new vid...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ95z6ywcBY&feature=PlayList&p=C4B9C7326E087E89&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL& index=1

I personally love Lady Gaga, but felt very uncomfortable when this came on the tv today, my little sister was visiting and I had to switch it over. I watched the video online and loved it, but I can't believe they are showing it during the day. The only thing missing from the edited version is the swearing and the close up of her lady bits!

World gone mad

I love it though.

I think it's a fair assumption by parents that pre-watershed videos on the music channels will not contain explicit adult themes or imagery. The music channels used to be great for soothing dd2 when she was a toddler. I find it a bit that I apparently can't switch them on during the day anymore unless I want to expose the kids to soft porn. It isn't meant to work like that.

I love the way everyone inc lady gaga herself is convinced she is some sort of new iconic take no shit female muso when a couple of years ago she was touting herself round the male music execs a la britney and co loo love the music though but fear someone rather more inventive stepped in and saved us from another teen star!

oh milly ffs are you really saying that anyone shown having a cigarette is in breach of the all important Ofcom rules? then visit a few town centres on a Saturday afternoon and try telling them that- or is it ok to do in real life just not in a work of fiction?

i think you have just shot your cause in the arse. and thats swearing. so sue me.

is swearing allowed on mumsnet before the watershed? if not then i suggest you start CATing lots and lots of posters and telling them all about the ofcom rules.

that is one of the weakest and most pathetic arguments i have seen or heard in a long time. in fact this type of argument just makes me want to go and watch a clockwork orange lots of times.

There is no watershed on the internet, for obvious reasons.

'The Ofcom report said the material in question was "not justified by the context of broadcasts that were likely to appeal to children".'

Like a pop music channel, Vicar, not a parenting website.

Bof - so beyonce shaking her arse while not wearing much and dancing about singing all the single ladies put a ring on it is ok then?

see this is where the whole argument falls on its arse.

your idea of inoffensive is my offensive.

the music channels show music videos. if you dont want your kids exposed to ALL the shite in them then dont watch them. simples.

clockwork orange another shitty overated cultural product... why don't you watch Funny Games by Michael Haneke...

Noddy, you make an interesting point.

She made a comment at her gig that a year ago, she'd been here supporting Natasha Bedingfield. Then laughed and said she'd really worked very hard.

She pretty much referenced the fact that yes, she had whored herself round the industry a bit to get started but now she has more artistic direction and is more developed.

But isn't that true in any industry, not just entertainment? You have to start off kowtowing to the rules, making the coffee and saying yes to twats. Then you learn what's wrong, get a bit more credibility and strength to start breaking then making the rules yourself.

Artists and entertainers do develop and change over time.

I wish pop music which is massively consumed by children wasn't so full off shaking arses and sexist imagery, yes, Vicar. That's why I think it's good to debate this kind of thing.

Any true artist would NEVER wear that get up and lie back and stare like a lolita type into the camera!It was quite recent

On a totally separate point from this discussion, this Gaga fan video is very funny if you have seen the original Bad Romance:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEpj9w1yz64

i think much worse happens in RL.

and yes a clockwork orange is a pile of shite but i defend it because i think if you choose watch it then thats your choice. and im pro choice in most things.

see the clue is in choice. seeing lady gaga videos is very much a choice. letting your children watch the music channels is very much a choice. so i take exception to anyone trying to dictate to me what i can and cant see on them when MOST of their content is not suitable for children imo. if you dont like it then dont let children watch them - they are not there for children and if you are not happy that what they show isnt suitable for childrens consumption then dont let them watch!! i fail to see why thats so difficult?

i dont let my kids watch the horror channel even though its on during the day - the clue is in the title.

also, Ofcom suck.

Censorship is tricky. the BBC have to try and please everyone, and end up pleasing noone.

if the rules that are applied today were at the BBC years ago we wouldnt have Fawlty Towers.
on another point, 'Sachgate' was the most unbelievable Daily Mail cr*p ever.

how many people complained at the time? and HOW many people complained after the DM made a story out of it?

and HOW many people have a sense of humour failure in this country?

personally, i think we should start a government campaign to bring back people's sense of humour.
how many people complained about Matt Smith maiking a ginger comment in Doctor Who's regeneration scene even though it was a positive comment?
and its okay to make the ocassional joke about ginger people. or blondes. or people who wear glasses. or people who eat at fancy resteraunts. or people who work in telesales. or people with kids. shock horror, what makes us different is what makes us worth talking about

Why should we just accept the status quo (not Status Quo, now that would be a bridge too far...) though? It's supposed to be MUSIC, not soft porn.

I hate my dcs watching the music channels. They're full of shite and the way women are portrayed generally is

Tbh I was as uncomfortable with them watching that ghaaaastly Katy Perry video (you know, the one with her in a wedding dress chasing a bloke) as I would be with them watching this one. Possibly more.

it occurs to me that people are just brilliant at passing the buck - your kids see a video you dont want them to see?

easy. blame MTV! never mind your parental responsibility. no - its MTVs fault. they shouldnt show it should they? never mind that you shouldnt be letting your 5 year olds watch adult channels. no. easier to blame MTV and complain to Ofcom.

BritFish, people are always complaining about things. They should have the right to complain - it doesn't mean that the complaint will be upheld if it is ludicrous.

Of course children should be allowed to watch music channels and listen to the radio - music is a hugely important part of our cultural life. Children, in the context of Ofcom, refers to everyone under 15. I hardly think a 14 year old is going to be happy with listening to 'Row Your Boat.' At 15, George Harrison had absorbed a huge amount of music from radio broadcasts and was performing with Lennon and MacCartney. Music is not just for adults.

What do you want on a music channel though? People standing with guitars looking earnest?

Or perhaps we should bring back Pan's People... or Legs and Co. Top feminist icons there.

I think a CD may hold the answers to your problems.

We are a society - we know that many parents are not responsible, so as a society we attempt to act responsibly on their behalf. Blaming the parents isn't of any help to the children in question.

I think its appauling that it is on tv before 9pm. It is sexually provocative with violent content. My daughter loves dancing to the music on mtv etc and is a beyonce fan (she is only 3) I feel let down that my daughter can't enjoy a little dance with mummy. It is not just Lady gaga though, the new Kesha video and song is very catchy to young children (Blah Blah Blah) but has a lot of adult lyrics, with reference to alcohol and taking your trousers off etc that I find I cant let her watch these channels at the moment which is such a shame. Like everything else on the television there should be more censorship because whether we like it or not children are more aware of the current "MTV culture"

I do want to say however that I do love the song just the video not suitable for kids

kitty your dd is 3 and watching MTV?

im calling social services right now...

actually i typed up a really long and valid point to this whole debate and then when i tried to post it said "oops link broken" and i truly could not be arsed to type it all out again.

and on that note im off to bed. because i think the whole "lets blame MTV for the ills of the world and for the belittlement of all womenkind" debate is a great steaming pile of poo.

I think you make a good point, MillyR. I'm not suggesting we abandon parental responsibility though Vicar, or asking for censorship- I just think that TV channels should stick to the guidelines they have agreed to, and the record companies could bear the audience for pop in mind, especially when they make such massive amounts of money from our children.

What I am really interested in though is the wider debate about culture that things like this video (and obviously music videos generally) raise: do we get the culture we deserve? What happens when we say nothing about the hyper-sexualisation of our young people? What are their relationships going to look like as adults?

If you'd read all the varied thoughtful responses to this thread, Vicar, I don't think you could justify being so reductionist in your argument. You are caricaturing what is going on.

But yes, enough for me too for tonight, I think.

It is an interesting ongoing debate, BitOfFun, and sometimes i feel like we should all just give up and shut up because it'll never be perfect, but then we need to try to change it all, because even if we change a bit its an achievement.
to be honest, i feel more people of our generation have gender equality/sexuality issues that younger people of my daughters generation for example [she is 19]
because we didnt have all the information, we still saw the effects of the traditional women's role on our mothers and family dynamics.
I think children today have more hope than we think
they know from a young age that help is there if they need it, ive been reading cosmo and company for a while now and even though these magazines do contain girly male-focused rubbish, they give amazingly accessible and detailed info about STI's, sex, contraception, violence, support, unlicensed taxis, drugs.
i always learn something new, i wish they were around when i was younger!