...to want DS's nursery to not use words like "ta" and "doggie"?

[Naetha]

I understand the benefit of getting babies/young toddlers into the habit of saying "ta" instead of thankyou as it's easier to say, but when they're 2+ and saying thankyou perfectly well, isn't this a bit infantile?

And why doggie?? Surely dog is easier and straight to the point.

Am I just a snob?

Ds says ta and hiya - sort of
but hes saying tak and hejsa from DH's language (Danish)
he says haaallo and tank-oo (best approximation) when hes with me
and farvel instead of bye bye when hes with daddy
Im sure people must judge what they think hes saying but hes really a pretty smart little chap (smug)

sunshine - Yes, I am surprised. I think it is sad that society does not place the importance it should on highly qualified people working in nurseries.
The job you do is incredibly important and should be better remunerated, otherwise if you have a good degree you are being altruistic to do it (i.e. minimum wage after years of study).

arabicabean - that is exactly what i think. obviously mumsnet is showing that my experience is not representative and they are all manner of degree educated and highly intelligent childcare professionals out there, but I have to say, those are not the norm. The low pay means that it will inevitably be a job that is not desirable for a lot of people. You could earn better money as a cleaner! IT is fantastic that some people don't give a stuff about what the earn and do it out of sheer vocation, but I don't think that is the majority.

Also - I repeat, i have not called nursery workers 'dim' I have simply repeated what another poster's daughter said about those who were choosing childcare as an option - it was 'the dim girls' in her class. It is an observation which is borne out by my experience of childcare professionals. I am sorry but it is!

How do you explain that?

This thread is actually about class, not levels of education.

For the record, I have two degrees (Russell Group as well thank you!) and a post grad qualification.

I have published technical art work and academic data.

I also have a VERY strong geordie accent.

I use "Ta" and "Hiyer" and "Harra way wi yer!" and several other phrases that would no doubt make some of you cringe.

We are losing local dialects. This is partly because of the advent of mass communication but also partly because of idiotic, outdated snobbery.

The amount of "posh" public school kids I've tried to train who didn't know their arse from their elbow....

Don't get me wrong, there are pointless working class kids too just as I've also worked with some wonderful posh graduates. Accent and background are no indicator of intelligence or even ability to learn.

Really.. is your DC happy? Do you walk away from nursery content that he is happy? Do they LOve your child and is he well looked after? If your answer is yes.. really you are being totally unreasonable! My son uses all the words I teach him.. and corrects the Lovely ladies at nursery all the time.. (thank goodness they find it really funny!) They have to cater to all the children in their group some of whom can only understand 'baby speak'..

PSCMUM - Your education clearly did not include a great deal of social education. You seem unable to express yourself without offending and belittling people.

No one is arguing that childcare is not a very very important job.

Many of us are offended by your obvious disregard for anyone not 'highly' educated or well paid.

You are missing out on a great deal in life if you judge and look down your nose at people based on their education, income or job. There are few things that I judge people on but snobbishness, narrow mindedness and prejudice are two of them. IMO these are things to be ashamed of and your posts suggest that you have them in spades.

I am shocked that you would feel you had failed your children if they wanted a career that was not highly paid, or on your list of well 'thought of' jobs- seems like a great deal of pressure to put on your children to me. I personally would not like a mother with that attitude.

God forbid your family ever falls on hard times. How would you live with the stigma?

I am aware that this post may sound agressive but your attitude really gets up my nose.

Oh and by the way, for the record I have 12 GSCEs, 4 A-levels and a degree from a very well regarded university. For 8 years I worked in the City of London. I now work part time with my family. I don't earn a great deal but I love my job. I am from the midlands and have an accent I am proud of.

"so many thickos work in childcare though"

That's sort of saying they are dim, wouldn't you say?

And how can you admit that your experience is not representative, read replies from 30 other posters disagreeing with your claims and still say that something is not the norm? You obviously don't know what the norm is. Maybe there is no norm. Maybe the childcare profession is just full of people with different levels of education and experiences. Maybe you ought to just admit that you are only repeating your own prejudices without any basis in fact. Then we can all agree with you on that point and harmony is restored. Because from what I can see, you just keep digging bigger and bigger holes.

what an easy target PSCMUM is! Of course there are intelligent, caring people and talented people that work in childcare

but I am a bit surpised that noone seems to want to admit that SOME people in this arena are not the most intelligent, just SOME.

look at how manyyoung girls with zero qualifications manage to get jobs as mothers help/au pairs. when people are looking for their budget friendly au pair do they expect her to have a degree, or course not. we want to pay 5 pounds PH dont we?

I can get how these comments will piss off child carers, completely.

But in attacking an easy target we are denying a maybe unpalatable truth

Of course there are loads of people with PHDs working in nurseries....

nursery detractors and precious moments mamas will never admit nursery is a good thing.so whether it be denigrating nursaery staff as reprobates or bigging up their own encyclopaedic knowledge of child rearing to make a point

I think so long as they are expecting them to answer with some manners, I wouldn't be too bothered whether it was "ta" or "thank you" that was being used. Although if my DS was saying thank you and someone corrected him to say ta, that would be a bit off.

As for doggie - nothing wrong with it. It's better than Bow-wow or woof-woof. I don't agree with giving things names that are totally different from the ones they are going to learn later on; or that they might get confused about (e.g. calling an animal by the sounds it makes).

I am tres disappointed that nobody else has picked up on Calamari's dog breed-identification process she uses for toddlers. To stop them from being 'dumbed-down'

This is one of the funniest things on this thread at least, amid a lot of unpleasantness

I quite enjoyed stickywickybickywhateverthefucktherestofitwas's post too, notnowbernard, and have to thank you for your post or I wouldn't have found it. I had stopped reading it after page 2 - it was getting too annoying.

With all the tas and doggies, my Italian children managed to learn excellent english at nursery. And had a great time too.

anyone said biddulph yet?banging the tambourine

oh no no no please not B... I can't even bring myself to type the name. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh SM

porcamiseria, I don't think anyone is saying everyone in childcare is a brain surgeon, but firstly not everyone working with children is an uneducated school leaver looking for the easiest option. But there are some people that see it as their career and study for years to become qualified at it who don't deserve to be dismissed as 'thickos'.

What really grates is hearing people say that they would consider themselves a failure if their daughter went into childcare. That really pisses me off because frankly, if no one's daughter took that career path, then women who thought they were all that would largely still be tied to the home. So let's thank goodness that some people see it as worthwhile. And I have a 2yo in nursery this minute so I include myself in that.

Not everybody bases their entire self-worth on work and certificates. Not everybody subscribes to that value system.

I do not see why people who work in childcare should even feel the need to justify their choice of job.

Who gives a toss what some stuck up madam muck thinks? I sure as hell wouldn't.

if a nn recives good appraisal and feedback and enjoys her job why care what someone else thinks

Well, my children are Scottish and not only do I truly not give a toss about words like 'ta' but also I encourage them to use Scottish words when they do so.

BFD.

Just to add, now that my keyboard has been replaced, that it matters not what education a nursery worker has. Being cared for and looked after is all that matters with a small child, education at this age is pretty much a waste of time anyway. So many children that 'do well' at this age end up being pretty average and lots that barely speak end up top of the class.

A little baby language is better than none at all....

The only thing that would bother me is if my child picked up a broad accent or very poor grammar(obviously nearer school age) but then I don't use nurseries or any childcare! I guess that only matters for 'full timers'.

what's wrong with doggy anyway? Most families use mummy then move on to mum, daddy, then progress to dad etc, surely doggy is ok fgs.

My dd goes to a nursery. All the staff there seem to be excellent, calm, caring, nurturing women (no men unfortunately). Not a 'thicko' in sight. They speak German but no idea if they are coming out with German equivalents of 'ta' and 'doggie' and can't say I'd care at all.

As other poster said, it would grate though if if was bad grammar eg 'we was going' (shudder)

doggy was said in nursery context,makes it heinous and likely to affect attachment and linguistic development

as far as some are concerned anything said/seen at nursery is a aberration

What exactly is wrong with accents and dialects? My children are in a welsh medium school and over the years have picked up words that those of us who speak proper Welsh in the South would never normally use, my youngest has a teacher with a particular regional lilt and when my son speaks Welsh I can hear the same lilt in his voice. I think it's fab, they soon lose the words that they don't use at home with me or hear more regularly from their peers and I think it helps them understand that language differs from place to place and some words have several meanings depending where you live. How boring if we all sounded exactly the same.

Not keen on 'ta' I must admit...it does sound lazy, incorrect...particularly as my 2.5 year old and her older brother can say 'thank you' perfectly well...however, 'doggy' I think is quite sweet, just as I find 'bunny' etc to be.

Incorrect grammar is more of a concern. If my children's pre-school teachers used grammar incorrectly I would have an issue with it and would probably stop sending them to that nursery school.