parenting pet peeves...

[bubbleymummy]

I know I'm going to get flamed for this but I just don't care - I have to vent somewhere after a weekend of smiling and nodding and keeping my mouth shut!

Here is a list of 'parenting' traits that I absolutely hate!

Giving babies sugar - dessert/pudding/biscuits/cake - they do not need it - they are not missing anything and they are the reason that your child is already overweight!

Shovelling food into tiny babies, scooping it up and shoving it back in when the baby's tongue pushes it out while discussing the baby's excema, constipation, tummy upsets etc

Giving toddlers fizzy drinks such as Coke and letting them run madly around before screaming at them and complaining about how badly behaved they are.

Giving children calpol because it's been a 'long day' or because they have a slight sniffle or even a hint of a temperature or just because 'they like the taste'!.

controlled crying / cry it out - I hate this at any stage but I DESPISE it in children under 6 months. I don't care if your child has been sleeping through since 5 weeks - it is bloody cruel!

and breathe....

Ok feel free to flame me or alternatively add your own pet peeves!

Disclaimer : I by no means consider myself to be a perfect parent and I could fill several threads with my own parenting flaws.

LOL oh staying david you're a few pages behind. Go do some catch up reading like a good girl.

Bubbley there were no guidelines 30/40 years ago what did they do then. I know for sure my mum and both my uncles were put outside in the pram practically all day. Conclusion to that: my mum is a very loving, caring, supportive person and would do anything for anyone...my oldest uncle is the same, the youngest of the three, is different and reason being is that my nan moved from my great nans house when he was born and so didnt get the support from my great nan when leaving him outside to amuse himself or cry himself to sleep...it was her last child and so she comforted him more, he actually now at 44 yrs of age still shows signs of attention seeking and has the 'i sont care what you think' attitiude - its all about him.

Now while I duely note that not just this fact played a part in their upbringing and personality today - I still think it played a major role in their personality. The relationship between my uncle and my nan is still one of 'he cant do anything wrong in my eyes'.

Guidlelines have been brought in becuase of 'child cruelty' to ensure that the governement plays as 'active' role in the upbringing of the children in its society...guidelines are not the law, they are just there to help people in difficult situations, another way in which they can do something.Why is it that so many children are being diganosed with behavioural difficulties now these new guidlines have been produced 10yrs ago??? People not doinf them right I suspect??? I dont understand why a mother can not go on her instincts when it comes to her child.(apart fro those diagnosed with a medical problem such as PND) If your child is tired, put it down to sleep, crying or not (all babies are dfferent) some may say 'overtired' babies cry, if you put your child down to sleep when you notice the 'sleepy' eyes then the child will go to sleep quicker and with more ease. Ummm...maybe in some cases, but not in my dd. CC was a way in which I could stop her from 'waking' in the night, not putting her down to sleep..she was fine at that part.

I dont see a problem in anyone who gives thier child loads of hugs in the night and it settles them so mum and dad can get some rest, nor do I have a problem with mums n dads who pay little attention to thier baby when everything has previously been done to calm the child and this is the last resort...

Today I'm being a paediatrician and I fully endorse everything Lequeen says.

Tomorrow I may be a barrister, university lecturer, astronaut or escapologist - whichever suits her posts.

It's very unpredictable being me but so rewarding.

Chellesgirl - Are the youngest children in the family not often like that anyway? I thought I'd read something about that somewhere....

Also, guidelines are usually based on research so wouldn't it be logical to assume they have been brought in to stop parents making mistakes that have now been SHOWN to potentially cause damage.

You used CC as a last resort on a much older child who was aware that you were nearby and were coming in and out. This is a HUGE difference to a 5 month old who is just left to cry. TBH I probably wouldn't keep arguing if the baby in question was older or if the parents were using cc becuase although I disagree with it my main issue is with young babies < 6 months who are subjected to CIO because 'no other sleep training worked' when they were too young for sleep training in the first place!

LOL @ lequeen

StayingDavid, you are assuming that the only baby who will be sleep deprived will be the one who has controlled crying training and not the one who is co-sleeping. But not every baby is the same. Nor is every parent the same.

We have friends who tried controlled crying for night after night after night and ended up complete wrecks, because the baby did not stop crying after 20 minutes or 3 nights as LeQueen assumes they all do: they kept it up for hours night after night.

Otoh my children always stopped crying the moment they came into bed with us, and I sleep far better with a young child in bed anyway (stops dh from getting into snoring position), so the best way to catch me non-sleep deprived and being able to give my best at work was definitely co-sleeping.

I didn't co-sleep for the sake of it though, just let the los come into bed to get some rest. Worked like magic! For us, that is. Something else might well work for somebody else.

I also have several doctors in the family. Never noticed that they make more competent parents than the rest of us tbh.

Have also noticed that this focusing on sleep/where you sleep as a yardstick for measuring parenting seems a very Anglo-Saxon thing. Not something that Scandinavian parents seem very hung up on at all. My (Scandinavian) Mum put us out in the pram in the garden for hours- but she also let us come into bed with her if we'd had a nasty dream. They weren't seen as conflicting parenting styles and definitely not something you'd be judged on as a parent.

My brother regularly used to share a bed with his partner, 3 children and 3 cats (all right, the latter wasn't particularly hygienic, but possibly they are less fussed about hygiene too- you don't seem to see many anti-bacterial lotions over there).

As long as children are happy and healthy, who am I to judge any other parent's way of parenting?

Like BrahmsThirdRacket and others have said, judge those who truly abuse or harm children with cigarette smoke, psychological damage, physical abuse, neglect.

Cake and biscuits? Dummies? Occasional sips of fizzy drinks or a Happy Meal once a month? Meh.... hardly important in the grand scheme of things.

bubbley: why are the youngest children in the famly like that??? why have they not been brought up the same way as the other two??? In my family there is no 'favourite' nor 'the spoilt one' there never has been cause mom has treated us all the same. Just because its your last child doesnt give the oportunity to be attention seeking. You read it somewhere..so have I, I also read that middle children (were hard done by, and the black sheep of the family cause they arent the 1st nor the last but inbetween) I disgaree...as a child my mum never put me in the background...as a teenager I put myself in the background and thought that people were not including me, not hearing me, but it was my own selfishness, lack of understanding and respect for my parents that made me that way...and I so regret it now.

two/three/four whatever (siblings that is)

Bubbleymummy:

There ARE NO GUIDELINES about CC/CIO.

There are NO RULES either about it.

Finally, THERE IS NO RESEARCH that shows anything whatsoever regarding CC/CIO, good or bad. There could NEVER BE any such research. For ethical reasons, you can't conduct research of the kind that would involve babies / toddlers etc, some crying, some not. And how on earth could you see what the 'results' of the CC/CIO were? would you see how the baby 'seems' immediately? A month down the line? Compared to what? Could you separate the CC/CIO from the context of the whole family & the rest of the way the child is being brought up?

I may agree with aspects of what you say, e.g. I personally don't like leaving my DS to cry & don't. I only did CC for a few days when he was 9 months for very specific reasons & it worked. Have never left him cry since then. I also personally wouldn't let a 5 month old to cry for long, but again there are no hard rules on this, it really depends also on how they're crying. There's tired crying in which case it's actually helpful for the baby to be left alone for 5-10 mins or so to put herself to sleep. There's also hysterical crying which I personally would never endorse just out of preference NOT because there's a rulebook or research about these things. I can easily imagine situations with babies / toddlers that are far more obstinate / difficult with sleep than mine is (my DS is basically quite good natured & even when we did CC he cried very little tbh) in which case I can imagine that hysterical crying for a few mins might do the trick. IF the whole family is not sleeping & is exhausted / depressed etc then yes, maybe the hysterical crying for a few mins might be worth it.

I'm just trying to contextualize the situation which you seem unable to do. You keep saying 'under 6 months' well even with that there's no rule book, no research, no nothing. Ferber himself wrote 'best not done under 6 months' but (despite the fact that I think he was probably right) it's not a RULE nor is it based on any RESEARCH.

So ok keep telling us your opinions, no problem with that, I love a good debate as the next MNetter does. But don't tell us its based on research because it's NOT.

And by the way:

We don't know if a baby feels 'abandoned' 'confused' 'upset' etc. Babies cry for various reasons & parents interpret through their own thoughts/emotions etc. We imagine various things about babies. The idea that a baby 'feels abandoned in a dark room all on his own' is our own projection. It may well be that another parent might say 'the baby is crying because he's tired & needs to be left alone to cry until he sleeps, if I go in I may disturb him'.

One parent might feel that the baby is entitled to their own space/room/cot & that it's not fair on the baby to be so dependent on the presence of parents in order to go to sleep & stay asleep.

Another parent may feel differently, that babies need to have close physical contact with their parents.

I can imagine that both sets of parents can be loving, wonderful parents. It really depends on all sorts of things Bubbley, can you not get your head around that???

(And by the way I've read the whole thread, very carefully. It interests me for various reasons. I say that because you implied before, just after I wrote, that I didn't read everything that you have written. Well I did).

quick post and run - sorry be back later

Maris - there is research

here is just one link for now

lequeen - seriously questionning your comment about SEVERAL medical professionals recommending CIO - CIO is not recommended for sleep training - are you still mixing up CC and CIO?

quoting lequeen "some people think that letting a baby cry at all is cruel"

hahahahahaha to them then...

Babies come out of thier mother crying. Why? to stregthen thier lungs, to help thier lungs contract and expand to help secrete amniotic fluid as we all know. If letting a baby cry for 5 minutes is bad, why does this happen??? Surely there should be another way of getting that fluid out???

Cory - I was talking about the specific situation that LeQueen recounted, where her friends' baby never slept for more than 1.5 hours at a stretch, causing huge sleep deprivation for the whole family.

In this scenario, the baby would be at risk of harm because of his poor sleep - developmental problems etc - and I was opining that that would cause more harm to the baby than the three days of sleep training that LeQueen described.

I asked bubbleymummy if she agreed or disagreed with this, and she sidestepped the question with an attempt at condescension.

The research cited refers to prolonged, intense stress. Nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Plus it's controversial research anyway, with very little (if any) of it 'proven'.

I see, SDT. It's just that in the previous discussion, it has sounded a bit (not from you) as if this one baby is in some way typical of all babies with sleep problems who are not sleep trained. Just as (from the other side) once could easily get the impression that all babies who are sleep trained will be traumatised. And (from the first side) that all babies who co-sleep will suffer from that. Or that all babies will stop screaming within the first 10, or even 20 minutes.