Can we all please try and inhibit segregation amongst people due to race, gender or sexual persuasion?

[anidea]

Hello,

We have recently been in contact with Olivia Vandyk of mumsnet regarding the practises and values of this website.
Here follows a transcript of that conversation, see what you think:

On 21 Feb 2010, at 08:54, James Wallace wrote:

Hello,

My girlfriend and I recently heard about your website and we are interested in your tag line "By parents for parents", when the site is called 'mumsnet'.

We think a title such as this propagates a stereotypical view that women are the main parents, and can't quite believe that anyone would think this as acceptable.

We think we as a society have grown beyond the point where such stereotypes are applicable and we hope we have passed the point where they are acceptable.

We look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely,

James Wallace and Tania Pieri

On 22 Feb 2010, at 09:21, Olivia Vandyk wrote:

Hi there

Thanks for your comments. We hope Mumsnet isn't exclusive to mums and indeed we know we have plenty of dads who log on and contribute. If it doesn't sound too pompous we think the concept of "mumming/mothering" goes beyond gender so don't feel mumsnet is too exclusive. We did think of calling the site parentsnet.com but it just sounded so hideous.

While the majority of our posters are women, we do have Dadsnet specifically for men to chat here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/dadsnet

But folks won't be surprised or bothered by having a male joining in anywhere on the site.

We also have a section for same-sex parents here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/gay_parents

Hope this clears up any concerns. Welcome to Mumsnet - do let us know if there's anything else with which we can help
Best wishes
Olivia
www.mumsnet.com

On 22 Feb 2010, at 12:04, James Wallace wrote:

Dear Olivia,

Thank you very much for the response. We're glad to hear that men can and do join in with discussions on mumsnet, but we are somewhat disappointed that there is an apparent need to have separate areas of the sites for dads and gay parents. Every caring parent has one individual goal - doing everything they can to promote the welfare and happiness of their child or children; so why not all work together, talk together, support each other and help promote understanding between different groups whether they are of different gender or different sexual persuasion. These categorisations are irrelevant we believe amongst a community of parents.

We can see that there are definite differences between the sexes in terms of the fact that women are the only gender that get pregnant and have the choice to breastfeed. However, whatever discussions are had between women on the topics of pregnancy or breastfeeding, it would be useful for all parents to join in the conversations so that they may better understand the situation and the difficulties and joys of the process.

We hope you are well and having a happy day,

James and Tania

www.artyempires.com

On 22 Feb 2010, at 12:10, Olivia Vandyk wrote:

Hi James and Tania
I'm having quite a happy day, though the snow is dampening my spirits somewhat as it complicates all manner of the day's logistics!

Thanks so much for your reply.

Your points below actually sound like a great starting point for a a Mumsnet discussion.
The best place to ask for strategies and tips is our Talk board.
www.mumsnet.com/talk
You can post and debate this with our users and see what they think.

Our Talk board is where we get all of our hints and ideas on how to handle issues - you'll be in good hands.
One pointer though, as you're a new poster you may want to avoid posting this in our "am I being unreasonable?" topic to start off with as this is our feistiest area which encourages people to be particularly forthright in their replies.
Again, do get back to us if we can help further.
Best wishes
Olivia
www.mumsnet.com

On 22 Feb 2010, at 12:25, James Wallace wrote:

Okay, thank you for the reply, we will post on the site shortly.

If James and Tania think MN is biased in favour of women as parents they want to try an hour or so elsewhere in parenting hell cyberspace.....

Probably the overriding attraction for me of Mumsnet in the first place, was that it is neither "mother" or (heaven forbid) "baby" centred......but "parent" and "people" centred. I don't want to spend all day talking about cervical mucuous and little Jimmy's nappies. Because I am actually mor than a parent. Thank Christ.

67Impala - they don't have children ..... which kind of proves your point nicely, I think

Does anyone else feel that they have been transported into and 80s timewarp?

I am so embarressed I used to speak like this

It is a bit butt clenchy isn't it - that adults really think this pointless stuff is the route to changing attitudes

What gets on one's tits about being deleted is always the thought that other people, who may not have read the "offending" comment might think you'd been really really nasty, or offensive, or even sweary. Instead of commenting on certain writing styles.

Funny how it's allowed on some threads but presumably those where the OP has a hotline to the Towers it's not.

Bit disappointed in MN today.

Why on earth was Bucharest's post deleted?

It wasn't bad at all!

Riven - If you think I'm going to google "erotic animals" to find out, you've got another think coming

Don't be disappointed Bucharest! We delete personal attacks if/when reported. We don't/can't watch every thread - so I appreciate that can mean we look a bit inconsistent sometimes. But if you think things break the rules and shouldn't be allowed to stay up then report em. We do rely on Mnetters to be our eyes and ears!

On a different note this poster has apologised for spamming and not fully appreciating how mumsnet works so we see no reason why we shouldn't apply normal rules wrt to personal insults and attacks.

Best,
MNHQ

Going back to other thread now before someone nicks my sofa place.

Eeek - 'twas not me (i know I turned up just afterwards, so highly suspicious....)

Ooh! I was deleted too!

although this thread has been brilliant and the veg porn truly inspired, the inspiration for it wasn't poor ol' James - it was some bird called Julie Mullen.

James' poetry is a little less amusing, although it has its own special style:

Somebody told me to jump off a cliff
I said no, told them to go and we got in a tiff

He believed that I could fly
I did not agree
But he did insist on it
until I had to flee

For I feared he may be right
For he may be wrong
I could be outcast, a flying freak
or hit the ground headlong

Such choices one must rarely make
but a stranger's choice is not for their sake
it's offered to you, a burning gift
to cast it out or give a lift.

One's soul can only answer to the choices it does make
So why not give it pride and joy, you risked for your own sake

And if you fall, well what of it
you're headed for a grave
But why not try, you might just fly
make gravity your slave

(taken from the excerpts on the website)

Where's the emoticon when you need it?

[james] not you Thmbwich

." If it doesn't sound too pompous we think the concept of "mumming/mothering" goes beyond gender so don't feel mumsnet is too exclusive."

jesus to follow that with a sentence siggesting "parentsnet.com" was too hideous is a delicious irony. saying mothering goes beyond gender is possibly the most vomit inducing pc shit i've ever heard

out of interest mayorquimby,

What do you envisage if I say

"oh stop mothering me"

or

"oh stop fathering me"

What is the difference?
Is there one?

well quite - one only has to look at the relevant verbs to realise that there are meanings quite beyond gender.

"I was mothered by a woman at my work"

has an UTTERLY different meaning to

"I was fathered by a man at my work"

Whether that difference ought to be challenged or not is a discussion to be had. But I don't think it's pompous to suggest that the public concept of "mothering" goes beyond gender. It's factual.