Advice with helping at the scene of a fatal accident

[zippytiptoes]

I'm really just after a couple of opinions if anyone could help out.

I stopped at the scene of an accident on Sunday after seeing a young girl flagging me down to ask for help.According to the police it seems as though I was the first one there.

To cut to the quick, the people on the road were injured but not badly, then I saw a car down in a ditch 20ft below. I ran and got my kids blankets out of the car to cover the passengers who looked unconscious. When I returned to cover them, coincidentally the next people to arrive were two surgeons who took over and asked me to help.

Basically, it was horrific. The daughter was pretty much dead although they did carry out CPR and use a defibrilator but with no luck.

The surgeons told me to climb into the back of the car and hold the woman's head still while they were doing other stuff to try to help her. I did this for about 45 mins while we were waiting for the air ambulance and while the firebrigade cut the roof and doors off the car.

I did what they asked and talked to the woman all the time. I kept telling her that we were trying really hard to sort things to make everything better. She seemed to regain consciousness and was screaming a lot and trying to move my hands, but her arms were broken and she couldn't move properly and the surgeon told me to keep her still. It was horrific.

When the air ambulance people were ready to move her, I left and returned to my car. I had to stay to give a statement and when I spoke to the police officer later, he said the mother had died too.

I feel so sad about this, which I know is inevitable. The family liason officer asked if I would mind if the husband/father requested my details, would I mind if he contacted me in the future. He explained that some people find it very cathartic which I can understand. However, I know I'm being totally selfish, but I'm not sure I could. The reasons being that I wouldn't want to tell the man the truth as what I experienced was so terrible and grafic and I feel that I wouldn't be able to lie, but wouldn't want to tell the truth either.

The top and bottom of it is that I have thought for two days now about writing the husband a letter, just saying that I was the first one there and that I did everything I could to help. That the surgeons were amazing and that I talked to his wife and daughter throughout and tried to reassure them. I hate the idea of him thinking they were all alone and in pain.

Do you think that writing to him would be a bad idea or would serve a purpose. I also think maybe if I did nothing, that that would be the best move, but in lots of ways feel that that is cowardly and selfish on my behalf.

If anyone has any advice, I'd be so grateful. I've got two little girls and would want someone to help me if I were grieving.

Thank you.

So...I've thought some more about it and have realised that my need and desire to contact the daughter is about me wanting to do my part in making better the situation, which perhaps for now cannot be 'fixed'. I understand what my husband means about seeming pushy and perhaps me contacting her to see if she's okay might be detrimental to her grieving process? She may not want to 'know' yet. I guess I will have to wait for them to contact me if and when they feel it is appropriate.

I suppose I will have to find a way to shelve my concerns and worries and in reality, I'm sure there is nothing I can do, especially if I rush the situation. I think I just feel that I didn't give them what they wanted or needed, but maybe that's just my analysis of it. I just wish I was able to make them all hurt less.

"I think I just feel that I didn't give them what they wanted or needed"

I wonder if all they wanted/needed was to be with someone who knew all about what had happened, someone who had a connection with their loved ones and their deaths.

I am not explaining it well, but I know that sometimes when people are bereaved they get ignored because it's so dreadful people don't know what to say.

My Dad died a couple of years ago and it was probably one of the "best," ie least traumatic, deaths you can get - I still wish I could sit down and talk about it to someone. Not that I haven't done so several times. But I'd like to do it again - just because!

So for those poor people, just having the opportunity to be with you, the green light to talk if they wanted would probably have been wonderful. But they didn't want to this time; they may do again and you have given them the chance to do so.

I think you did a marvellous thing.

< takes hat off >

zippy...if only there were some way that you could 'make them hurt less', as you say, I'm sure that you would do it in a flash. But the fact is that you can't. You can't remove any of their pain. It will lessen and become more manageable over time, but not because of anything that you can do. So don't let yourself be burdened by a desire to do this. You have made an enormous difference to their whole family at the most crucial and sensitive time in their lives. That in itself is an amazing thing. You have already done the very best thing that you could do for them.

I had to do CPR on a man last week. It was unsuccessful. Although i'm a health professional, it's not a normal part of my day and i've never had to do it before for real.

I'm interested to read here about the red cross offering counselling, I'm going to look into that for my team. I've been going over and over it in my mind and feel happy that I did the best I could, but with the result being death it's difficult to feel like it was the best outcome.

Dealing with these situations isn't easy and i think you should allow yourself time to come to terms with what you've experienced.

Hey girl how's you? That sounds really tough, it's not like you've had nothing else weighty to deal with recently. I am really impressed that you still tried CPR - I have had first aid training (years ago) but it would scare the crap out of me to have to do something as major as that.

It came surprisingly naturally. Just a terrible shame it didn't work. Luckily the paramedics showed up after about 4 or 5 cycles of CPR and took over.
It was outside in the rain too.

Puts all my crap into perspective though. Went for a run tonight and managed about 3k comfortably. Have sorted out my inhalers too. I ran on sunday and thought i could hear seagulls, it was me wheezing

I think the CPR and the running are connected in a way. I need to get fitter.

Wow. What a time you've had recently.

Was it helpful in terms of chaing your perspective? I must say some of the stuff you've told me is far heavier than most people's problems, but yes, resetting one's perspective is still really useful.

How come you're wheezing, is it asthma?

yes, asthma. i'm not very good at managing it because i forget i have it, and forget my inhalers all the time.
did well tonight though and hopefully the running will help me get fitter and make the asthma less of a problem.

i think the incident changed situations at work. all the bitching and nonsense within the team at work was put aside while we worked together really well. seems we can when it's important.

Oh, asthma sucks, poor you. But honestly, you're a typical health pro, not looking after yourself!!

Do you find the running improves it? I'm pretty sure it cured my asthma, though to be fair it was always mild.

It somehow seems wrong to say there's a silver lining when someone's died, it feels disrespectful. But I'm glad that in spite of that man dying there were positives for you and your team.

These days I'm pretty well, apart from getting aches and pains at night and constant acid reflux. But I really shouldn't whinge. And I can't wait to meet my baby .

Not long now.
I saw your post on a baby names thread and am now trying to guess which of the names you liked.

It's one of those 'horribly popular' names but it's a variation on my mother's name. I like my mother's name but prefer this one. Bearing in mind she's not around any more (and that this baby is due on her bday) I couldn't give a toss about the popularity thing.

And that's all I'll say this side of the birth!

you need to post one of these

Yes, quite. And maybe I should make myself a badge saying 'My daughter's name is Ermintrude, do you have a problem with that? '

Great to have you back on MN, by the way!

Im going on an intense first aid course tomorrow and next Saturday and I was dreading it to be honest. After reading this it has encouraged me that its a realy positive thing to do.
My thoughts OP x

What a horrible experience for you. I think you can be proud of what you did ultimately, and writing a letter seems to me to be a right thing to do. I'm sure he will derive comfort in knowing someone was there being kind. Take care of yourself and don't hesitate to get some kind of help if this ends up distressing you for too long.

Thanks Ariesgirl. I'm okay and just placing these feelings where they need to be. I feel less emotional although thinking about it does still make me sad and cry at times. Meeting the family was starnge and not what I expected. I would like to be able to answer their questions and help them gain some clarity if I can. Thanks for everyone's constant positive and kind comment.

I've been thinking a lot about the daughter/sister of the mother/sister who were killed in the accident. I know I've posted already about my DH and BF saying that it would be best not to contact her, but I'm having real trouble sleeping at night and I'm pretty sure it's because I'm thinking about the family all the time.

I think I'm anxious about having to speak at the inquest and feel that it's quite a lot to have to carry in my own head, what I saw and experienced.

Can anyone let me know if they think it would be really inappropriate to contact the daughter with a brief email to check she is alright and offer to chat again? As I've said, I know she wanted to ask me stuff but couldn't at the time of my visit a couple of weeks ago. My gut instinct is to contact her, but I'm holding off in case it's not appropriate. I'd be really grateful for some ideas about this.

Hi Zippy, Have just read this thread and want to say you did an amazingthing and in time that will be a huge comfort for the =family.
Did you speak to the FLO about further contact?
I had a bad accident in my teens and it did stay with me for years, I would have liked the opportunity to talk further to those involved as they would have been part of it too IYSWIM?
Perhaps sending a message to here saying, if you would like to talk I am here.
However I do think that maybe you are seeing this as a way to deal with it yourself and you need to consider that it may even make it worse? Sorry if thats harsh, I don't mean it to be.
x

Hi,

I don't think you should contact the daughter at all. If she wants to get in contact she will. She has all your details. She may feel obligated to respond to you and may feel as if you need something from her. I am sure they have thought about how hard the accident must have been for you too. I think facebook is part of her personal/private life.

You made the difference to their life when you were there at the scene of the incident. Don't forget that.

Thanks for this feedback. Sorry if you have misunderstood me in terms of my need to debrief. My concerns lie in my anxiety towards how the young girl is coping. I know her father was putting on a very brave face and showing he could cope. She discreetly told me that this was not actually the case. She also told me that she was really worried about going back to university and being alone with her thoughts. My dad died when I was a similar age to her and I know then that people focussed their sympathies towards my mother and overlooked me as a young person. I also have a friend whos dad died when we were at university and she really suffered not being able to be with her family and them having to be so far away. I know she found it a real emotional struggle.

My concerns are that the Dad may feel like he is 'coping fine', but that the daughter feels that they as a family aren't and needs someone to talk to, but doesn't feel able to contact me because of her dad.She is now living in a very male dominated family.

I have a great husband to talk things through with and very supportive friends and would really be happy just to put this all to rest once and for all for now, but it's quite a hard thing to know that she was so sad and really wanted to talk.

I read this story with great sadness, but also hope that there are people out there who don't turn around and walk away. It seems as if you are in as much need of comfort and support as the others, seeing someone that badly injured must be traumatic and you may not be in much of a position to help if you are also suffering.

I was present during the aftermath of a tragic accident at a race track, trying to manage the teammate who thought he'd seen the guy I knew to be dead, in the pitlane and wanted to get out of his car on the starting grid and speak to him. I also comforted the young lad who had inadvertently caused the accident in which the other driver lost his life. It was very hard on both counts and I learned that in one situation I was utterly out of my depth and to try to help would have caused more hurt and in the other situation to help only as much as was asked for, and to offer more was counter-productive. There are people out there trained in how to deal with this, and I think it is for the best for the rest of us to do what little we can and then guide those we can't help towards those who can, letting them know we are there if they think there is anything we can do.

Along with everyone I really think the letter idea is fantastic.

I used to work in emergency services and can absolutely empathise with the scene that you were confronted with. What you did for the victims and the support you gave to the surgeons was incredible. Truly amazing.

I am worried a bit about you though more than I am about the letter. What you have been through is undoubtedly going to cause shock and some level of stress that you need to deal with. I think writing the letter, at the very least, would be extremely cathartic for you and for you to have an outlet to explore your emotions about the situation. Don't stop talking to people around you - even people who work in the emergency services are taught this. You were a part of the trauma, and will be affected by it, but talking it through with your DP/H or another sympathetic family member will help enormously.

If you decide that you would like to write the letter to the husband/ father of the victim then I would, and give it to the family liaison officer to hold until he is ready to either attempt to make contact or to have some of the questions he may have answered. If you feel uncomfortable with the thought of him contacting you, don't. It is entirely up to you and certainly you must not feel guilty about that.

Once again, I want you to know that what you did was incredible. So many people would drive on, or would turn away once they had seen the level of trauma. Offering your help and assistance is not something that everyone would do and I absolutely applause and salute your bravery. You and your family should be incredibly proud of you.

Gosh I'm so sorry.. I read the OP and commented without seeing how much time had passed. I'm sorry that you are having such a difficult time moving on after this.

It would seem that actually the advice that I gave in my last post was exactly what you have in fact done, which is great. If you are still finding it difficult there is a slight chance that you may have post traumatic stress to some degree - certainly from what you are saying about the incident going over and over in your head and your sense to make 'right' the situation that had gone so wrong whilst you were there (although obviously was in no way your fault).

I think although difficult, for yourself, I wouldn't contact the young girl. You have done enough and it is right to move on. It is so unbelievably sad but I am concerned that you have become emotionally tied in some way to the incident and the family and honestly, that will not have a healthy outcome.

If you cannot rest easy knowing that you left her when she wanted to speak to you contact her again, but do it with a view to it being the last time and at some point in the contact you need to say goodbye to her, and in the same time, the incident.

Unfortunately their circumstances are their circumstances and ultimately you will return to your loving family, and their pain will continue until it fades somewhat. There is nothing you can do to relieve that, they need to go through the grieving process and find their own futures.

I really feel for you, and I hope that you are able to move on from what has been an extremely traumatic and emotional process.

Good luck