Advice with helping at the scene of a fatal accident

[zippytiptoes]

I'm really just after a couple of opinions if anyone could help out.

I stopped at the scene of an accident on Sunday after seeing a young girl flagging me down to ask for help.According to the police it seems as though I was the first one there.

To cut to the quick, the people on the road were injured but not badly, then I saw a car down in a ditch 20ft below. I ran and got my kids blankets out of the car to cover the passengers who looked unconscious. When I returned to cover them, coincidentally the next people to arrive were two surgeons who took over and asked me to help.

Basically, it was horrific. The daughter was pretty much dead although they did carry out CPR and use a defibrilator but with no luck.

The surgeons told me to climb into the back of the car and hold the woman's head still while they were doing other stuff to try to help her. I did this for about 45 mins while we were waiting for the air ambulance and while the firebrigade cut the roof and doors off the car.

I did what they asked and talked to the woman all the time. I kept telling her that we were trying really hard to sort things to make everything better. She seemed to regain consciousness and was screaming a lot and trying to move my hands, but her arms were broken and she couldn't move properly and the surgeon told me to keep her still. It was horrific.

When the air ambulance people were ready to move her, I left and returned to my car. I had to stay to give a statement and when I spoke to the police officer later, he said the mother had died too.

I feel so sad about this, which I know is inevitable. The family liason officer asked if I would mind if the husband/father requested my details, would I mind if he contacted me in the future. He explained that some people find it very cathartic which I can understand. However, I know I'm being totally selfish, but I'm not sure I could. The reasons being that I wouldn't want to tell the man the truth as what I experienced was so terrible and grafic and I feel that I wouldn't be able to lie, but wouldn't want to tell the truth either.

The top and bottom of it is that I have thought for two days now about writing the husband a letter, just saying that I was the first one there and that I did everything I could to help. That the surgeons were amazing and that I talked to his wife and daughter throughout and tried to reassure them. I hate the idea of him thinking they were all alone and in pain.

Do you think that writing to him would be a bad idea or would serve a purpose. I also think maybe if I did nothing, that that would be the best move, but in lots of ways feel that that is cowardly and selfish on my behalf.

If anyone has any advice, I'd be so grateful. I've got two little girls and would want someone to help me if I were grieving.

Thank you.

Dear Zippy, I work with people with brain injuries. Screaming and agitation immediately after an accident is not uncommon and is NOT a sign that someone is properly aware or can grasp what is happening to them. If the family want medical detail there are others there that are better placed than you to interpret what was happening, the surgeons and paramedics. You can assure them that help was on hand quickly and that everything was done, so no 'what if we'd been there?'. As others have said, they will see that someone very selfless and compassionate was with their mum/wife and I'm sure that will help them now and in the future. You should be very proud of yourself. Debriefing is important and I would echo the poster who suggested the Samaritans would offer you space and time to talk through what you experienced and your feelings about it. Good luck tomorrow, try not to worry, you will not harm them and they will guide you with their questions.

Zippy - how did it go? Are you OK?

My goodness you are so brave and you did a trully amazing thing. I think you are completely right and should definitely write a card. I have a friend who many years ago lost both her children and her inlaws in a horrific car accident. A very young inexperienced firefighter told her that her daughter had been screaming in agony for her before she died. I think it is that that haunts her the most. You are completely right to not want to lie to him face to face a letter is completely appropriate.
I really hope you are getting some help to deal with what you have been through.
Don't forget that even though they were in pain and experiencing something horrific you did give them comfort and they would have felt you and heard you. They weren't just surrounded by medical people tied up doing their jobs you were there with a kind voice and a soft touch.

Sorry didn't read the last threads. Hope the meeting went well and I hope you are ok.

Thje husband will want you to talk to him i am sure. And well well done for waht you did...brave girl. You did a very big thing there and need a massive hug and pat on the back.. Get in touch with the hubby,,,, you are very improtant to him as you were the last person to see his wife and child alive. Hugs.... xxx
As time goes by you will recover from the shock of what you experienced, seek help and good luck XX

Zippy,

I hope you are ok and that maybe the family got some kind of comfort from your meeting.

What you did was extraordinarily brave - not only to help at the accident scene but to be so selfless as to meet with the bereaved family.

You are amongst the best of humanity.

Take good care of yourself.

just want to say that you have done a lovely thing,

i see this from two angles, as someone who lost her sister in a car crash (6 year anniversary tomorrow) and as a police officer.

i hope your ok in this and be secure in the knowledge that you did a wonderful thing. take care and very best wishes.

How horrific.

I think you are an extremely brave woman for helping in the way that you did.

My gut reaction though is that this thread should be removed. It is so identifiying and I would hate to be the sister, mum, auntie, friend of this woman and come across it.

I hope you get plenty of support.

Vicarinatutu, I hope your day passed quickly and that you were able to recall some nice memories of your sister. Thanks for your supportive comments. And to everyone else.

I did go and meet the family but it wasn't at all as I expected. As it was probably clear, I was very nervous about what to anticipate and how to respond. Basically, I went with the FLO and met the family. The husband to me seemed in total denial and was making every effort to seem almost as if nothing had happened. I understand why this would be, but I found it very strange. After two hours of talking about ANYTHING BUT the crash, he thanked me for writing the letter and said he had found it very comforting. He then cried a bit and his daughter who is older, cried a lot too. I really wanted to do something to help. I said that I imagined that they would have a lot of things that they needed answers to; that the questions were probably different from all of them, and stated that if I could help in any way by answering anything, they just had to ask.
The poor daughter was distraught and couldn't physically get the words into her mouth. I didn't feel as though it were appropriate to offer information up to her without her asking. I don't feel that I know what exactly she needs to know and don't want to tell her stuff that she may not want to know or she may find upsetting. I hugged her and said we could talk another time. She told me quietly that her Dad wasn't really coping, which I had picked up on already by the way he was behaving.

So, we really didn't discuss much and I don't feel that I gave them what they wanted or needed from me. The husband asked if we could meet again soon and I agreed. I felt uneasy the following day as I was hoping to bring some sort of closure to this all, but I am aware that that is perhaps a little selfish on my behalf, as I'm sure they need to know what happened to make sense of it for themselves. I have left them my email address and said I would visit again if they wanted me to.

I do feel really worried for the daughter and I know that I can't really do anything, but I feel really sad that meeting me made her feel sad, I sort of feel a bit responsible.

zippy - you are a wonderful person. Well done, and well done for keeping the door open for the family to ask questions when they're ready. I think that's probably exactly what they need.
I don't think meeting you made the daugher feel sad - she's grieving and she will need to cry a lot. I'm sure your visit helped, not hindered her in her grief.

Have only read the OP, but zippy, can I just say that you are amazing. Absolutely amazing.

Don't forget that you have been deeply traumatised, and so at some point in the future you should consider finding ways to deal with this trauma so that it doesn't overwhelm you.

I agree with those who've said that you should write a letter to the family and give it to the police. You need to protect your own boundaries; this is not selfishness but a wise approach to self-care. Writing this way is a very good way to take care of yourself whilst still helping the family with their grief.

What a wonderful person you are.

I was wondering about contacting the daughter via FB and just saying it was nice to meet her and if she wanted to chat via email if she found it easier, I'd be happy to do that.

What do other people think? I don't want to pry, but I know how upset she was and I'm concerned she may think that I only mean for the father/husband to contact me as I gave the card with my email address on to him.

I feel that I should maybe step back now but on the other hand, I know because the police officer told me, that she really wants to speak to me. I think she may be worried about upsetting her Dad but I want her to know that I'm there to chat to her too if necessary. Any ideas?

Zippy, you are an amazing person, doing so much to help people you didn't even know. I admire you.

Re contacting the daughter via FB - how old is she? Is she an adult? If she is not, I'd be very reluctant to contact her without her father's knowledge. If she is an adult, might it be best just to let the FLO know you are willing to meet the daughter without the dad being present, if she wants to? Surely the FLO can pass the message on. And, if she is a minor (I'm thinking teenager here), you can again let the FLO know you would meet her without her father there but with his knowledge, IYSWIM.

I'm not fond of FB anyway, but I suppose I feel it's not something you'd want on a social network, I suppose.

Zippy - I really feel for you going through this. It is so hard for them and for you. If you feel that the daughter needs to be told that you are there for her as well as her Dad, why not get the FLO to pass the message on.

I've been on the other side and just knowing you can talk to the people that were there 'at the end' is really a huge comfort. I've yet to talk to a few people I need to, but knowing I can is reassuring. I don't know if I am ready to hear what they have to say yet, but I know at some stage I will want to talk to them.

You are doing something very brave and very kind - don't underestimate how hard it is on you or how much benefit it is to them.

She's 20. I'm just not sure that she, at her age would have the impetus to contact me directly. I don't know? I too don't like FB at all. I don't really use it other than to communicate with a charity I'm involved in, so I don't have to do personal emails etc.

I wondered if FB might be more appropriate to her needs. I wouldn't send it to be viewed by all. I'd send her a private message. I know she said she was thinking about returning to uni soon and didn't feel ready to. She said she was afraid of being alone and thinking too much with no one else there to talk to about what had happened. That's why I wanted to offer her the opportunity to chat.

Sorry, just caught up with the latest update on this thread. Zippy, you sound like you have an enormous heart. IME there are relatively few people who would give as much as you have given to this family. I cannot advise you on the specifics of the situation, but just be aware that people with huge hearts tend to put themselves second and can become overwhelmed (and even ill) because they feel so strongly that they want to care for and help others. Just be aware that your boundaries are incredibly important here.

You have already given enormously, more than most others would (and don't underestimate that - you may take it for granted because it's just the way you are, but most people would not give in this way). Now your primary obligation should be to look after your own needs. If you feel that you can do that by sustaining contact with this girl, then fine. But if you feel that this is encroaching upon your life and possibly your well-being, then you should consider drawing a line.

Best of luck to you.

zippy,

thanks for thinking of me, the day passed and my friend had a baby girl that evening.

in your situation i would just leave your email your contact details and let them contact you if and when they need to,

it may be easier to communicate in writing, or they may not even know what they want to know yet, the questions may come later.

i think id leave the ball in their court, whilst letting them know your happy to answer anything they may need to know about. just mind your own well being in this situation as well. keep a little distance while letting them know you will answer their questions, there really isnt a lot else you can do.

take care,

Hi Zippy, been following this thread and think you have already done an amazing amount for this family. I think leaving a very brief message for the daughter so that she knows she can contact you if she needs to would be wonderful.
I don't know you but reading into your posts, it may affect you more if you didn't take this step as you would be forever left wondering if she needed to talk.
You have been incredibly strong and giving; as others have said, please make sure your needs are being taken care of, it is still a trauma for you too.

Thanks a lot to those of you who have shown concern towards me. Can I just let you know that honestly, I'm fine.

I think intially I was in quite a lot of shock and wasn't thinking as clearly as I normally do. I'm normally a very sorted person and I'm not good in circumstances where I don't know what the answer is. But I really am fine.

I'm just concerned for the family involved and wish I could have done more to help those women and more to help the family now.

I'm really aware of boundaries and of not crossing them. I work in a job where this needs to be taken into consideration. It just feels quite strange having been catapulted into another family's life for one hour of my life, but in such a profound and personal way, that it's hard to just turn my back on what's happened.

I've chatted with my husband today about contacting the daughter and he says that he doesn't think I should as it would perhaps seem a bit pushy. Maybe he's right? I just really feel sorry for her and quite worried. She's gone from a predominantly female household into being the eldest female in a brother and father's comapnay and I think that's quite a lot to cope with without your Mum and sister.

I'll think on it some more. But thanks again to people for asking about me. It's not really me I'm concerned for. I've got two kids and a husband and have to be okay for them.

Zippy you are such a wonderful person. I'd feel so much better if the worst were to happen and someone like you were there with the people I love.

I think a quick FB message is a good idea. Just say if she has any questions this is you email address. Up to her then.

Zippy, you should be able to get free counsleling from a voluntary agency - have a search on google, there are often much shorter waiting lists. If you have a victim support nearby they may be able to help, although not all offer counselling. You could try Mind, Cruise but there are also countless other - just takes a bit of searching. You could also try private counselling - many offer reduced rates.

You did an amazing thing

Zippy, just to add my twopenceworth

You did an amazing thing and I agree with Speedy and Vicar above. I know you're aware of issues around boundaries, but do remember that how the father and daughter cope now is not your responsibility. If you feel you're happy for them to contact you, fine, but please don't feel that you need to contact them. You do sound fine, but the effects on you may come out later.

Re what your GP said - I think I'm right that you would need to be struggling / showing 'symptoms' at least 3 months after the incident to be diagnosed with PTSD - and a diagnosis would then indicate further treatment (not sure what you'g get on the NHS). That's what he meant by waiting 3 months.

What purplejenny said is absolutely right. Nine times out of ten the worst time to seek counselling for trauma is in the early days after the event. So while I'm glad to hear that you are good at keeping your boundaries, please also don't forget to look out for yourself and how your doing in the months to come.

What an awesome woman.

Aaarrrgh! "you're".

Thats so sad and I agree with the others about the letter- a nice idea. However you may in time find it therepeutic to meet the husband in person and discuss it- sometimes to debrief with someone can do so much good- it hurts like hell at the time but can help you move on so much more.

If you cant do this try and ask the family liasion officer if they can offer YOU any support as what you witnessed was horrific and traumatic- just because they are not people you know does not make it any less so.