to consider aa a dangerous cult?

[Kirkers]

I am ready to be attacked by cult members.

I have read 'theorangepapers' online which is very well researched, and 'twelve step horror stories' (also available to read online) and they prove to me (on top of my own experience) that aa does much more harm than good. In every proper, conrolled experiment aa produces worse results than any other treatment, including doing nothing. It is unquestionably a cult(Google, 'is aa a cult'). Yet 93% (I am not sure about that figure, sorry) of treatment centres follow the same model. That would be the £10 billion treatment industry.

I hope this isn't too off topic for mumsnet. They do involved children too. It is awful.

I first came to mumsnet following the Julie/Jake Myerson thread. The detective work that went on was phenonmenal. Is there anyone out there breastfeeding or too pregnant to move who could look into the orange papers and tell me I'm not Erin bigchest Eronovich.

This is an absolutely genuine request for feedback from people who are prepared to consider the actual black and white evidence of this extraordinarily powerful organisation.

Thanks.

merlincat-There are more ways to quit drinking than attending AA!
They only have a 5% success rate-so what are the other 95% to do?
They are alternatives like Smart Recovery and many online groups as well.
Also many people quit drinking and doing drugs all on their own.
Yep-it happens everday-people getting fed up with addiction and quitting.
Some quit cold turkey.Others might need medical for withdrawal symptoms.
To deny that there are options to quitting addictions is very dangerous.
If you send people to a CULT that has a 5 % success-now that sounds idiotic to me! Would you send someone who has cancer to a doctor that had a 5% success rate? Again-that would be idiotic.

7 year-old raped in Englad by AA members-So sad but very true.

www.gmanews.tv/story/75915/Girl-kept-detailed-diary-of-rapes-by-mothers-boyfriend

Nope-talking about the same organization merlincat.There are many caring loving people in AA.AA works for some people. It worked for you.I am glad that you found something to work for you. BUT-AA or NA does not work for 95% of the people who go.That is by AA's own stat's.AA does have a dark side in my opinion,and is a religious organization but pretending that they are not.People have been raped and muredered by their own sponsors for goodness sake! Little children are being sexually abused left and right.
There is proof of this. People can try different AA groups to see if it suits them. We just want them to be aware of the dangers that exist in many of the meetings.Some meetings are safer than others.But please no matter what-dont send your teen to one or take your children to them.For your own safety do not give your number out.

run123- your example of a 7yo being abused by a man- how on earth can that be pegged to his aa memebership?

Children are abused by a cross-section of society- should we be hysterical about teachers, nurses, university lecturers, car mechanics, orderlies, police officers, shop workers, soldiers, software engineers, graphic designers, garderners, etc etc?

Stupidest post I've seen in a long time.

You miss the point swanker. Car mechanics are not sent by the court systems unless introuble,many of the people you list are not alcoholics. Did you read the article ? I didnt think so. This girl was raped multiple times by men her mother brought home from AA meetings over the years. How many software engineers are in the news for raping 7 yearold little girls ?
There is a high% of dangerous people in meetings vs say the local grocery store. To say otherwise is being totally in denial.Why are you trying to prevent and water down the dangers to children in AA/NA? Who is going to go to bat for the helpless children at the hands of AA members who many actually target groups to prey on women and children. Not you-right?

If you cared and did your homework swanker you would see that both AA and NA headquarters have admitted to predatory sexual behavior being a problem for them.They have chosen to do NOTHING about it.This is not right!

Hi, I can understand your concern and was just wondering why it is such a big issue for you? I have been sober for 14 years thanks to AA having stopped when I was 23. My life was absolute hell and rapidly getting worse until I was shown a way out. There may be other ways, there may be other things that people choose to do but having grown up with an alcoholic (who himself has been sober for 27 years in AA) and having lived through my own personal hell I am happy to have found AA. I think it is easy to dismiss AA if you have not lived through alcoholism and have despaired of ever being able to live a normal life. It may not be for you but I know scores of people who have made a conscious decision to follow the Steps and are better people for it. I also know quite a few people who were unable or unwilling to change and who are now no longer with us. So on that basis I think I'll take my chances. Hope you get what you are looking for from the answers on this thread.

redbunnyfruitcake-thanks for asking.First check out the responses from people-and how angry they are with me stating many facts about AA.
When it comes to children I cant understand why people would not naturally want to protect them. It bothers me in what I see people putting AA's reputation before the protection of children.If AA would put protective measures in place I would not feel so passionate about this. The fact is they do not. They recruit minors to attend meetings without doing background checks on sponsors etc. They want to sweep under the rug what they know and want people to have a false sense of safety without warning people.
This is not right. Plus 2 wrongs dont make a right. Because some people have been helped by AA does not make it okay that they refuse to protect minors.
Mental Institutions help many people too-right? But you would not want to mix minors with mental problems with older possibly deranged people.

merlincat-excuse me-I am not a troll thankyou very much! I am sincerely concerned on this topic.if you do not like the thread than dont read it or post. But to tell others not to is pretty controlling dont you think? Just because I dont agree with you-you tell others not to post or ignore? Hello! This is a thread about a discussion if AA is a dangerous cult-right? I believe I am on topic.

ummmm-strange agenda? Protecting children from harm?

Run123 I wiah you would run!! You are talking utter shite. I can't be arsed to engage with you other than to say you really are doing more harm than good! And stay off the brave babes thread too please. Its been made quite clear no one wants to listen to your pish!

How rude! I am not on the babes thread-so not to worry.If you dont like this thread than stay over at the babes thread.I dont bother you and you dont have to come over and insult me. Actually I am discussing factual matters in reguard to safety of those that attend 12 step meetings.So it is not 'shite'
as you call it,there is documented proof of harm that has come to those attend AA/NA meetings that AA/NA are fully aware of.There are internal documents discussing such matters.They discuss it but do nothing(that I am aware of to date) about it. They say it is up to the group to deal with such matters.

Of course I read the article- how else could I form an opinion?

The child was put at risk by her mother- whether she'd picked these men up at aa or down the pub is neither here nor there frankly- if she wanted to behave in this manner she would have done regardless.

Run have you actually ever been to an aa meeting? In fact do you have any experience of addiction at all? Aa saves lives! Its not for everyone but when it works it works well well!

Run have you actually ever been to an aa meeting? In fact do you have any experience of addiction at all? Aa saves lives! Its not for everyone but when it works it works well well!

At a pub they do not encourage you to trust everyone and give your phone number out.The mother thought the AA men were a safer bet than the men at apub because AA indoctrinates to think that. People going to meetings are vulnerable,they are told to trust and share tons of personal information.
So many unsuspecting people do ,and are harmed because of it-like the woman who's daughter was raped by male AA members.

I dont think I would be writing about addiction and AA if I did not have experience with them,that is kinda a silly question.
AA saves lives,SMART Recovery,Rational Recovery saves lives,People save their own lives too!

You are right that AA is not for everyone. Like 95% of the people who go!
So people need choices in addiction.One size does not fit all.Many AA members feel that AA is the ONLY way.That is what makes it quite cultish.
That is what makes it dangerous.When people fail in AA -they feel horrible,and because they have been brainwashed into thinking AA is the only way-some commit suicide because they have failed at AA too.

People need to know there are choices in recovery.People do better when given a choice.They do better when they are forewarned of the dangers of attending AA or NA meetings.

OP (sorry, I must be missing something, but I'm not sure who to address with the name changes and zombie thread!)

This is obviously something which you feel very passionately about. Thank you for highlighting the fact that you have concerns about the efficacy and safety of such a well known and well respected organisation. I think we're agreed that in an idea world no-one would feel that their abuse of alcohol was so out of control that they were desperate for help, or indeed that any child should have an alcoholic parent.

You've obviously thought hard about choosing this forum to make sure that your concerns are widely heard among mothers, some of whom may be wondering how to deal with what they feel is a harmful dependency on alcohol. What approach would you suggest they take, so best to protect their children?

Name changes and Zombie threads? Who is OP?

One-get professional help from an addiction specialist.Some are pro-12 step-
many are not. AA groups are not professionals in the field of addiction-period.
Yet they try to tell others how to live their life when many of the sponsors are still neck deep in turmoil. Sponsors play therapist without a license.

I would tell Mom's do some homework and investigate different alternatives,other than just thinking AA is the only way. If Mom goes to an AA meeting to be aware of the dangers and be extra careful by not giving her phone number out and letting people know where she lives. I would not bring any children to meetings.I would not send minors to meetings.

If you are at a meeting and you feel uncomfortable to be hugging people you do not know-than dont allow people to.You have a right to say no.

You do not have to share everything in the 4th step to a sponsor.It really is none of their business. if you want to work the 4th step-you can do it privately.

Yes, thank you - that makes sense; not to avoid AA as intrinsically harmful, but to maintain the same level of vigilance which is sadly required of parents in any setting. Hopefully such vigilance would be easier when sober than when drunk.

I did not say that AA was not intrinsically harmful. I believe it is harmful.
But you asked me what I thought Moms could do. IF Mom's decide to go to an AA or NA meeting(that I think is a dangerous and intrinsically harmful cult)
that they need to be on higher alert,more vigilent than many settings,because of the demograhic nature of many who attend.

Nice try in twisting my words to your agenda.

Who is julie meryson and why are you obsessed with her?
Actually it's just occured to me the op sounds quite dangerously obsessive. Hope she's ok.

'thought hard about choosing this forum' This is the ' is AA a dangeroud cult thread' right? Where else would I post about AA being a dangerous cult?