to consider aa a dangerous cult?

[Kirkers]

I am ready to be attacked by cult members.

I have read 'theorangepapers' online which is very well researched, and 'twelve step horror stories' (also available to read online) and they prove to me (on top of my own experience) that aa does much more harm than good. In every proper, conrolled experiment aa produces worse results than any other treatment, including doing nothing. It is unquestionably a cult(Google, 'is aa a cult'). Yet 93% (I am not sure about that figure, sorry) of treatment centres follow the same model. That would be the £10 billion treatment industry.

I hope this isn't too off topic for mumsnet. They do involved children too. It is awful.

I first came to mumsnet following the Julie/Jake Myerson thread. The detective work that went on was phenonmenal. Is there anyone out there breastfeeding or too pregnant to move who could look into the orange papers and tell me I'm not Erin bigchest Eronovich.

This is an absolutely genuine request for feedback from people who are prepared to consider the actual black and white evidence of this extraordinarily powerful organisation.

Thanks.

I feel really sad now, should have hidden thread - any other recovering alcoholics feeling the same? Deep breath...

sensing a distinct air of "its my ball and i'm not playing with you any more" from the OP

Don't feel sad bec.

The vast majority of us are right behind you and AA

You know what? I am actually quite grateful to Kirkers, loon that she is. She has started a debate (although not really joined in, just lobbed grenades of uninformed 'data' into the mix when people didn't come up with the responses she wanted) which I think might have actually reassured some of the people who are put off AA by the supposed 'cult' aspect.

I have utter respect for everyone on this thread who has put forward well-balanced and open-minded opinions. The argument that has come across most powerfully is that AA works for some - unquestionably - and not for others. And that every individual has a choice. If one person who really needs it manages to think 'maybe I'll try AA, it doesn't sound quite as alarming as I thought' as a result of this thread, then well done Kirkers.

Actually whoisasking think i might join you in that I was only still here because of teh small part of me that wondering if this was someone genuinely in need of help. I've now come to the conclusion that OP is either being deliberatley inflammatory or, if is in need of help, is really not ready to accept it.

Gonna have another

CJCregg I agree with you, I think AA helped my exDH give up drink, the way he handled his life was a result of him being a twunt, not AA's fault.

I do hope that my close call with David Crowley will act as a warning to those going to meetings NOT to get close to people who are strangers, you really don't know who they are.

Good men do nothing.

AA groups do worse than groups with no treatment in any study OTHER THAN ANY THAT I AM TOLD AND WHICH I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT.

Please let me know.

Back later to check thread.

Thank you all.

Thanks WhoIsAsking. I think the sadness is just survivor guilt - I sometimes feel a bit overwhelmed that I've got this amazing life now, when so many people, including members of my family, either die or live miserably due to alcoholism. And while I don't believe AA is the 'only way' whatever the hell that means, it made the difference to me. I could so easily have been put off from calling by some paranoid cult fantasy.

'Good men do nothing' - WTF does that mean, and how exactly is it relevant?

Arse, she's drawn me in now and I have to go and do school run in a minute.

Yes bec. I totally understand where you're coming from. Would it help to think that the OP is probably fighting her own battle against alcoholism? Her dogged refusal to hear anyone elses POV just SCREAMS at me TBH.

Have a little and a You're doing brilliantly.

I'm so; Fair Play: The power of realising the ridiculous elegance of inhaling cancer did it for me. Did it..does it.. still does it.

becstarlitsea, I was put off for a long time by talk like that. Luckily I saw through it eventually, mainly through seeing people who had been miserable and desperate actually leading happy, healthy and normal lives - by which I mean they were functioning, sociable members of society, rather than weirdy-handshake-all-hail-Ron-Hubbard-you-cannot-ever-leave-THIS-IS-THE-WAY automatons .

I love AA and get a lot from it, but it's not my whole life.

Kirkers - the only data that suggests that AA groups do worse than no treatment is when coercion is used. Even the orange crap says that. That is not the same as saying that if you chose to go to AA, you will do worse than if you don't.

You really are now being deliberately obtuse. Or just a bit dense.

Kirkers - you are not making sense, and your posts are becoming very incoherent. I have to ask this, are you feeling OK??? I'm actually a bit worried about you now.

Perhaps you should stop posting and get a bit of rest. I'm sure you will feel a bit better after some sleep. I know that sounds patronising, but it isn't intended as such; I;m just worried.

You sound like you're drinking too much right now, Kirkers.

Dittany, I was just thinking that.

WTF is going on?!

I love this idea that AA is about brainwashing and we all smile and give each other money.

If ever you're looking for a good row over minor points of detail with some grumpy tightwads, come to AA!

But where it matters - staying away from the misery that drink used to bring us - we are closer than family.

And that's what matters to me. I didn't go to AA to make friends or find a sense of belonging, I went there to stop being a turps-nudger.

Not only did it work for that, I did end up with a few mates and feeling better about myself too.

Win win.

dittany - I held back from saying that, but I strongly suspect the OP has been indulging a tad. I think perhaps there are issues with this that she doesn't want to divulge on MN, but ones that are clouding her judgement more than a bit.

Actually just thought, my last post may have been in poor taste to anybody still struggling. What i actually mean is its all complete and utter unsubstantiated garbage.

Er...there is a thread where OP admits to a problem with drinking in her past. Don't want to drag stuff from other threads TBH, but it is relevant.

MumofOscar - they are hilarious, but if I were an alcohol abuser who was looking for help, they might just stop me from trying AA. As might this thread. Which would be absolutely tragic if it happened to be the right route for me and I gave it a miss because of nonsense spouted on the internet.

The internet has been life-changing for many things, but this is one of its downsides - utter loons or those with an axe to grind can self-publish and someone with no critical reasoning will come along and believe their twaddle.

I've spent so much time on this thread today that I'm going to have to work VERY late after putting DD to bed, but it is time well spent if it helps even one person to decide to try AA rather than believing such shite as the OP has been spouting.