to consider aa a dangerous cult?

[Kirkers]

I am ready to be attacked by cult members.

I have read 'theorangepapers' online which is very well researched, and 'twelve step horror stories' (also available to read online) and they prove to me (on top of my own experience) that aa does much more harm than good. In every proper, conrolled experiment aa produces worse results than any other treatment, including doing nothing. It is unquestionably a cult(Google, 'is aa a cult'). Yet 93% (I am not sure about that figure, sorry) of treatment centres follow the same model. That would be the £10 billion treatment industry.

I hope this isn't too off topic for mumsnet. They do involved children too. It is awful.

I first came to mumsnet following the Julie/Jake Myerson thread. The detective work that went on was phenonmenal. Is there anyone out there breastfeeding or too pregnant to move who could look into the orange papers and tell me I'm not Erin bigchest Eronovich.

This is an absolutely genuine request for feedback from people who are prepared to consider the actual black and white evidence of this extraordinarily powerful organisation.

Thanks.

I'm starting to feel manipulated by the OP. She throws in an irritating, vague, incoherent one liner and then disappears to watch us all rant. Won't provide any background to show where she is coming from - which might you know duh help us to be a bit more sympathetic and focused.

This is just controlling weirdness.

I'm off.

Accio - I think the OP might be, ahem, a little indisposed.....

She has contradictory stories in past threads. In one she says she has been to AA in the past and owns AA books etc.

In another her partner wants her to have a drink problem - though she doesn't have one - as he is hooked to Al-Anon.

So it is not clear to me which camp she considers herself. It is relevant the OP to mention it though.

I'll be working late too BossofMe! School run in a mo, then take DS to football (gulp - see my other thread in Chat about driving phobia - am very scared!), put DS to bed then start up the computer. WITHOUT connecting to internet Glad to know I'm not the only one...

Just to reiterate, the claim that alcoholism is an illness is endorsed by the WHO and the BMA.

Me too, Boss and Bec - so little work done today, that's my weekend ruined ...

I am powerless over AIBU and my workload is becoming unmanageable

TheBoss - agree completely, ehnce saying my post was in poor taste. I have reported it BTW and hope it will be deleted soon. Should've thought before posting.

becstar - good luck with the drive! I posted on the thread - my Mum is the satnav user who won't even drive to the shops without it to help her with her fear!

Mum - you weren't offensive at all. Sometimes one just has to ridicule things or your head would just explode

TheBoss I think you might be right.

Becstar - You'll be reet!
TheBoss - I have wasted the whole of today arguing with someone - feels like being married again!
MIFLAW - as ever - you have been great.

Genuinely ROFL at 'feels like being married again' WhoIsAsking!

WhoIsAsking - groping right back!

OMG ive only been on here a few days and I too have wasted too much time on here today!!!

Welcome to MN snail

I used to work as a counsellor with people who had issues around alcohol, both alcoholics and family members. I had clients who came to see me to think about why they drank but they also went to AA. I used to see clients who had been dried out (in an NHS project)and then wanted counselling. Giving up alcohol is hard work and I only saw clients once a week. The majority also went to AA meetings for additional support - usually more often in the early days and less often as they felt stronger. When you are desperate for a drink AA can help enormously.

Having been to a couple of meetings myself to see what it was like. It is so ridiculous to think AA is a cult. I wasn't even asked my name when I went.

I doubt anything I or anyone else says will make a blind bit of difference to the OP but she has made me rather cross

I keep trying to leave this thread but can't! (maybe its a cult?)

If the OP only wants the opinions of health professionals (and orderlies!?) why post it in AIBU, why not in health?

I struggle with the fundamental concept of AA: you are sick, you cannot touch alcohol again as you will never have control over it etc etc. as if alcoholics have an infectious disease over which they have no control and the only thing to do is to stay away from alcohol.

to my mind, all addicts are wounded, the addiction is a symptom of that wound and a treatment programme that doesn't address these wounds addresses the symptom not the problem.

HOWEVER abstinence does save lives. and therefore AA does save lives. so whilst I don't agree with the fundamental premise of how they do it, I don't knock it, because for some people it helps them to stay away from their substance of choice which would otherwise kill them.

A lot of people who are wounded do not abse substances though.The majority of alcoholics are powerless once the alcohol is in them.

Hmm...My ex FIL got over his alcohol addiction with AA and is a bit hooked on them about 20 years later, and some stuff he says is a little cultish, but he is happy, as is his wife, and he now owns a very succesful business.
He was always trying to get my ex, his son, to go to meetings, he refused on the basis that he thought it was too cultish, (and too honest, he did not like hearing about how others had fucked up). Well, he is now dead, epileptic fit caused by alcohol dependency/trying to stop with no support.

'Littledragon; I want it peer reviewed, even if it is destroyed. I don't know who wrote it and I have no connection with it. I would like it peer reviewed sentence by sentence. What do you suggest? I would like it peer reviewed in great detail and for the peer reviews to be reviewed.'

Kirkers, articles get peer-reviewed if someone already thinks they're worth it. If the writer is not up to a serious research standard, he or she can hardly claim serious researchers as peers, can they?

That's why it's worrying when something hasn't been peer-reviewed.

Gees, the trolls really are on a roll here.

[rolls eyes]

sophable your view is very similar to devendra's and unfortunately she never came to reply to my questions, i was trying to find out what sort of services she was involved in and how clients came to her.

I am not at all sure about this "all people with substance abuse/dependency issues must be damaged" thing.

If you go enough into anyone's life you will be able to find something bad that has happened to them.

For some people these things will lead to substance abuse in a "blotting out" way.

But equally the substances that people abuse tend to be very addictive and have a pleasurable effect. Isn't it possible that some people become addicted to addictive substances because, weil, they are addictive?

Thus for some people, with an underlying psychological issue, counselling will be the best way. For others, who just love drinking too much and are unable to moderate their consumption, abstaining with support may be all that is necessary.

Certainly abstainance has worked for many on this thread, this assertion that counselling is always key is something I do not agree with. It is not one size fits all with this stuff.

While I have no direct personal experience of AA or other 12-step programmes (as I don't have any substance abuse issues) I do think it's important to remember that they don't suit everyone, so that if someone tries AA and hates it, there might be a better way. FWIW a friend of mine tried Overeaters ANonymous and found it distressing and unhelpful - what she reported appalled me, too. Most eating disorders stem from self-hatred and guilt, and the 12-step programmes' emphasis on shame, guilt, powerlessness and making amends strikes me as extremely unhelpful to people whose addictions/issues stem from rock-bottom self-esteem or having been abused anyway
And if the OP is the one I remember from another thread about an Al-Anon H who seemed to want her to have a drink problem so he could get praise for being so 'supportive' I think her biggest problem may be that she;s married to a total headfuck of an abuser. And (again) a programme which tells her to abase herself and apologise to everyone else is not what she needs.