to consider aa a dangerous cult?

[Kirkers]

I am ready to be attacked by cult members.

I have read 'theorangepapers' online which is very well researched, and 'twelve step horror stories' (also available to read online) and they prove to me (on top of my own experience) that aa does much more harm than good. In every proper, conrolled experiment aa produces worse results than any other treatment, including doing nothing. It is unquestionably a cult(Google, 'is aa a cult'). Yet 93% (I am not sure about that figure, sorry) of treatment centres follow the same model. That would be the £10 billion treatment industry.

I hope this isn't too off topic for mumsnet. They do involved children too. It is awful.

I first came to mumsnet following the Julie/Jake Myerson thread. The detective work that went on was phenonmenal. Is there anyone out there breastfeeding or too pregnant to move who could look into the orange papers and tell me I'm not Erin bigchest Eronovich.

This is an absolutely genuine request for feedback from people who are prepared to consider the actual black and white evidence of this extraordinarily powerful organisation.

Thanks.

Where is your data?@Kirkers?

Kirkers - where's your data????

If you want some, I just gave you some in my post of 14:13:29

And I don't think AA give a flying fuck whether anyone respects them - they just want to help sick people get better and stop drinking.

am wondering what opinion the AA members have of those who are co-erced by the courts to attend (if such a practice exists). There's nothing more destructive and disruptive to the fellowships then an individual who geniunely doesn't want to join the groups.
IME those who came because they thought they should, to Al-Anon, never lasted long. The 12 steps are about choice and taking repsonsibility for yourself, not following orders.

Kirkers - again, why do you consider the AA a cult? Why? What evidence do you have for this?

And don't refer to the orange data. I looked at the first 5 "statistics" I could find at random on there, and they were all wrong or badly interpreted.

The other thing which happens at AA meetings is that very vulnerable people get up and share their story with complete strangers. This resulted in my exDH meeting with convicted paedophile

David Crowley and becoming his friend. My ex didn't know of course that he was a convicted paedophile, so he came to my house and played with my son. I started to get a very bad feeling about him as he was just far too interested in my son, and when I heard that he had been a priest I was not happy.

I only found out the full horror when his parole officer contacted me as he had talked about my son.

People like this lurk in meeting rooms befriending vulnerable people.

Go on google David Crowley, priest. See if you'd like him in your house.

"Hypnosis, NLP and various other techniques of this nature obviously inform AA's approach." No they don't. AA's approach has not changed in 75 years. It involves one alcoholic talking to another, partly to remind himself what it was like and partly to see if the other alcoholic can benefit from his personal expereince. (or her, obviously, though AA is still majority male.)

That's it.

Kirkers you love allen carr, as do I.

In his book (IIRC) he says that while you read it you will be reprogrammed in your thinking, and that he repeats certain phrases over and over to get them to become a part of your thinking.

You seem to be saying it is fine, and in fact good when AC does it, but not other organisations?

You don't make any sense, I'm afraid. You are not presenting a coherent argument.

Because the book, 'Living Sober' seems to contain a lot of sense, as do other, heavily Jungian-borrowed aspects of the cult, such as living for today. All good. Haven't looked at it for ages but no one wants to throw the baby out with the Jungian/spiritual bathwater.

Yes.

IVA - I've c+p my earlier post in answer to your question:

AFAIK, and i do know a little, nobody is sent to AA as a result of any criminal activity in this country. Drug treatment and testing orders (and obviously for alcohol as well) do exist but state treatment centres as methods of recovery not AA meetings as it would be impossible to confirm that someone had been to an AA meeting.

What? You meet total strangers and some of them turn out not to be very nice? Why, that's ... unheard of outside of AA! It MUST be a cult!

Grumpy WTF has that got to do with anything? AA don't check peoples criminal records WOW!!!

Your DP could've met that guy in a pub or anywhere that is sooooonot relevant!!!!

Grumpy- that's really unfortunate, sorry to hear that, but you can't attribute that solely too AA. Could've happened at any meeting place, let's not get into the whole 'paedo' thing, purleeeeezze!!

MIFLAW I'm not subscribing to the cult nonsense, just telling my experience

How does the fact that he attended AA have anything to do with him being a paedo?@Grumpy. The bloke sitting next to your DH on the bus that he strikes up conversation about footie with could be a paedo.

Irrelevant.

I am off for a metaphorical pint of stella artois/school run. Back and very grateful to everyone who has participated.

THANKS ALL

Grumpy - I thought AA members were actively told to keep boundaries for exactly this reason, and not to "become friends" with each other. FWIW, I would never invite a stranger into my home without finding out a bit about them

Thanks for clearing that up, MumofOscar

It's relevant to my experience of AA

Kirkers I have checked your other thread. Alanon did not do that to your DP
AA did not do that to your DP

I have posted on your other thread, hope it helps

GrumpyWhenWoken - I'm really sorry that happened to you. I hope no harm came to you or your DS. But that awful incident really isn't anything to do with AA - a sexual preditor could befriend anyone anywhere - at a bus stop, work, the pub....

A close family member is an alcoholic, but has not had a drink for over 30 yrs, he still regularly attends aa.

If this is a cult, then I welcome it, it certainly saved our family

what a wildly inappropriate thing to say on a thread with a load of reformed alcoholics and doubtless many people lurking who are having problems with drinking.

OP has been posting on this thread since 4 o'clock this morning.

I'd have given up by now, but the OP's posts are becoming more and more incoherent. What did gauntlet.downlay.com mean?

Thankfully I'm starting to feel a bit more and a bit less

@ kirkers that was