I want to ask this somewhre where I might get a range of responses so not asking in SN, ismore a would you agree with this lady thing than a AIBU. Sn kids in mainstream education.

[Peachy]

Someone today whom I respect immensely and regard as kind, told me that in her opinion children with disabilities like dyslexia etc (so ampresuming the whole gamut of SEN - SN) shoudln't be in MS schools because of the effect on the other kids.

She is someone who though not employed by school has access to DS1 (ASD) and ds2 (SEN not sure what) during school time in a volunteer role. I pretty much trust her.

DS3 attends an SNU placement, but I do wonder how many people really share that attitude. My experience and belief tells me that different kids benefit from different settings so parents should have final say (it took me 2 years to get ds3 his place, and I face a battle now to get ds1 into SN Comp placement).

?

Devil, not about your thread I suspect, but something that someone said to Peachy at her DS's school.

"better for the country" is a nonsense, isn't it. The legal obligation on the authorities is to act in the best interest of the child. God knows what "better for the country" would entail for my children's education, or anyone's. Fifteen years of training for the service industries I suppose.

PP, of course we all want the best education for our children regardless of whether they have sn or not.

My own ds has sn, he is also a gifted learner, he is not aggressive in any way shape or form, in fact he is very passive. His behaviour is just a bit 'different' from other children.

In fact he is one on the receiving end of aggression from other normal children, hitting, name calling, no one wanting to sit next him, no one wanting to play with him, no one wanting him as their partner, the usual stuff etc, etc.

So normal children are disrupting his education, are you seriously suggesting that these normal children by placed elsewhere?

Surely the best solution is for my ds to learn to 'fit in' more and for the normal children to learn to be more tolerate.

This is what I wrote

'I want to pin you down on this
is it better for the country overall
A) for 20 disruptive children(SN and nonSN) to disrupt one another
b) for 580 non disruptive children (both SN and nonSN) to be disrupted by the 20 in separate classes. '

You clearly didn't read it secondcoming (perhaps you want to learn to do that before you pick me up on spelling and grammar dear)

As no one has answered that then you clearly think that ,actually yes , it is absolutely fine for a child to disrupt 30 other kids in a class.So that says a lot about how much you reapect other peoples' kids
You've run out of arguments because yours don't stand up to logical scrutiny.
You might want to reflect on what the words 'mainstream' and 'special needs ' literally mean.

The answer is C) 580 non disruptive kids being taught alongside 20 children with the potential to be disruptive if their needs are not met, with adequate support and differentiation to ensure that disruption is minimized and learning is maximised.

princessparty I didn't answer ita as it didn't make sense(and still doesnt) you just seem to want to have ago.
so will ignore now

What Lou said.

I mean even if you seriously thought A was better, how would you decide who went in the disruptive class? Is it one disruptive outburst? 2? 10? How do you decide what is disruptive and what is not? Is there are grace period for new children settling in? What about children that are acting out things from home?

Option A sounds awful.

Presumably only those whose disruptiveness directly affects princessparty's child(ren) potoroo

Also agree with what lou031205 said.

Well put Lou

In the 9 years I have had dcs at school, pretty well all the disruptiveness in their classes has been caused by NT children who are upset or traumatised (mother dying, witnessed horrendous crime etc).

So would the solution be to send them off to a special school where the teaching is entirely geared to children with learning difficulties- or is NT disruptiveness something other parents should put up with? As opposed to SN disruptiveness that we don't want anywhere near our children

Speaking personally, I have been very happy to know that when these sad things have happened, dcs mainstream schools have dealt with them to the best of their ability, and dcs and their friends have been part of the solution. It is, as somebody said, about being part of a wider community. And the same goes for children with SN who have also been part of their school community, as long as they are getting the appropriate support.

*victoriascrumptious"

"I don't want children with specifically behavioural or intellectual problems sharing a classroom with my children. I have no issues with them being in the school per se but just not in the same classes

I am currently looking for a school with streaming and banding systems in place as I feel this would provide the best education for my LO's "

My DS with a dyslexic type learning difficulty is in top set!

Ok well i would like to apologise to anyon whose feelings I have hurt.this is a very sensitive personal and emotional subject for many people on this board and I don't think it is something that can be discussed in a detached and logical manner on a forum like this.
We all want is best for own children.

Victoria, if your dc is able to scrape into top set, that is a place where they are quite as likely as anywhere else to encounter children on the autistic spectrum. Just warning you dear, wouldn't want it to come as a nasty shock.

Peachy

I heard this "argument" from one of my DH's friends (her DD is on the gifted and talented register). Needless to say her pronouncement did not go down too well.

Bruffin, i thought victoriascrumptious was joking, surely that wasnt a serious comment?

Bloody hell, this thread is worse than TDWP's one.

I can't believe some of the comments on here, they make me feel even worse about sending my (non-aggressive) autistic DS2 to MS school. Its parents like some of the posters on here that make me kide on the other side of the playground at home time.

PP, you havent offended or hurt my feelings at all.

I think you will find most parents of SN children develop a very thick skin, as we have to deal with comments like yours frequently.

Claw

I would have thought if it wasn't serious there would be a smiley or wink. It looked scarily serious to me!

Can we just clear up once and for all if you are told 'don't say no' to a child with ASD it is for a reason. It doesn't mean don't sanction the child when they misbehave. If you say "nooooo" to my son when he pinches you he will giggle and laugh and pinch you again. Right away. And again. And again. Then when he sees you next time a little gleam will come into his eye and you'll find you have the most massive bruises. Unfortunately some people never manage to turn off that 'no' which is vvvv irritating.

Far better to turn as soon as you are pinched and say firmly 'sit down'. When my son is sitting down he can't physically pinch you, he can't reach you for starters. And he hates being made to sit down still for 30 seconds (whereas he loves having someone say no to him).

If a child can't help their behaviour for reasons of SN you will find that almost everyone will work incredibly hard to ensure that the behaviour is as good as it can be. In fact it is essential - ds1's behaviour is the one thing we care about more than anything- and one of the best things about moving him to special school - no more untrained staff undoing all our effort through inappropriate sanctions.

A new problem I have is that my now very well behaved (for him) son keeps getting told off by the general public. I wrote a blog post about it a couple of days ago. This occurs when he really is not affecting anyone (we don't let him) - usually someone needs to display about 2 minutes tolerance to his unusual behaviours. It's a shame that the public can be so intolerant. I think the idea of inclusion is partly that through exposure intolerance will become less common - I'm not sure the way it is actioned really helps. Unfortunately as this thread and DWP's shows when a child is poorly supported the child rather than the lack of resources tends to be blamed.

Oh my goodness! What narrow definitions of "best" some people have. My experience is that two boys have been at dd's preschool, both with severe SEN. Not that this is the point of them being there, but it has been a very enriching and eye opening experience and has changed my view. It's not whether kids with SEN are right for the school iot's whether it's right for them. Sadly not always the case. I have only just calmed down from hearing my raging friend getting cross that 2 children with SEN got i "ahead" of her dd to one of the schools she missed out on. What she doesn't know is that the two boys from dd's preschool actually applied to my friend's first choice school, were in range but couldn't go because the school couldn't accommodate their needs. I have come on a long journey with all this so no one is at fault necessarily with their views but nonetheless I think people need to look at how they define a good education. Learning a bit more "stuff" in a very narrow social and intellectual environment isn't my definition. It might well affect the quality of their education in ways you can only imagine. They might be better citizens for it.

Bruffin, Oh dear, I thought she was being sarky!

DS2 did "scare" children when he started at MS, but that is because he sometimes says hello by growling like a T-Rex, arms and all. They are all used to his quirky behaviour now, and even greet him in the same way. If he was being violent in any way, then I would own up to him doing it. Not all children with SN are violent.

And please, SN is Special Needs, SEN is Special Education Needs. People are using SEN in the wrong context. Not all children with SEN are disabled or have SN.