I want to ask this somewhre where I might get a range of responses so not asking in SN, ismore a would you agree with this lady thing than a AIBU. Sn kids in mainstream education.

[Peachy]

Someone today whom I respect immensely and regard as kind, told me that in her opinion children with disabilities like dyslexia etc (so ampresuming the whole gamut of SEN - SN) shoudln't be in MS schools because of the effect on the other kids.

She is someone who though not employed by school has access to DS1 (ASD) and ds2 (SEN not sure what) during school time in a volunteer role. I pretty much trust her.

DS3 attends an SNU placement, but I do wonder how many people really share that attitude. My experience and belief tells me that different kids benefit from different settings so parents should have final say (it took me 2 years to get ds3 his place, and I face a battle now to get ds1 into SN Comp placement).

?

By jeee Wed 27-Jan-10 11:19:17
Can I add a point. I really hate it when I hear people claim: "it's so good for the other children to have a disabled kid in the class." It turns the child into some kind of a prop for all the NT children. They should be in the class because it is right for THEM, not for the other children.

As a mother of NT children I do believe in inclusion - as long as parents have the option of special schools for their children when they believe it to be appropriate. And from what I've read on this and the other thread that is often not the case.

I sooo agree, I hate it as well, my dd is not here to educate other people,

When I volunteer at my local school, I see that some SN kids are thriving well, and are in the best place for them.

For others, where the SN is not well managed, it is awful. They're nt accessing the curriculum, not making friends etc They are also very disruptive to the other members of the class - both NT kids, and SN kids.

DCs school only takes kids with, relatively easily managed SN, so no-one has any cause for complaint, either the parents of the SN kids who are very well catered for, or the parents of the NT kids.

It's all about management and resources no?

Of course she isn't, 2shoes. But children learn from other children all the time. None of the children is there to assist that learning, but it is a happy effect of schooling.

Peachy, that is a very good point. For those worrying about a normal child being at a disadvantage when a disruptive sn child is in their childs class.

In my experience all funding is aimed at the disruptive sn child and no funding at the passive SN child. Because he/she is not being disrupted, he/she is seen to be 'coping'.

In fact having a disruptive sn child in ms, is not detrimental to the learning of a normal child, but to another SN children if we have to point the finger!

So taking that disruptive/aggressive child out of ms and placing him/her elsewhere isnt going to solve the problem ie he/she will just be aggressive and disruptive elsewhere.

The solution is more funding.

'In fact having a disruptive sn child in ms, is not detrimental to the learning of a normal child'

oh come on you are talking nonsense now !!How can continual disruption by anyone be good for anyone's education !

Having 20 disruptive kids together in a class means 20 kids education is disrupted (by themselves).Having 20 disruptive kids in 20 classes means 600 children are disrupted !!

A disruptive child makes it difficult for everyone else, both NT and SN pupils.

all diruptive children do not have sn
(throws it into the pot and runs away)

Princes, my point being a disruptive sn child in ms is more detrimental to another sn child who is not disruptive, than it is to a normal child, if we have to point the finger as all funding is aimed at disruptive child.

But as i went on to say, pointing the finger is not the solution, funding is.

Sticking em all together is not the answer either imo, meeting a childs needs is.

But 'sticking em all together' is at least an exercise in damage limitation.i am not sure that some kids could not be prevented from being disruptive short of being bound and gagged (and before sonme numpty jumps on me obviously i am not advocating that)

Surely a better "exercise in damage limitation" would be to identify potential difficulties and find solutions for them at as young an age as possible, rather than writing children off at the age of 5?

Her views are questionable to say the least. It depends on which angle she's coming at it from. If she means that she thinks that SN children of any kind are not well catered for in mainstream schools and would benefit from more specialist teaching, that's a different proposition from saying that children with special needs of any type should be hived off into special schools. IMO all children deserve the best teaching for them, wherever and whichever setting has to be found for them. In practice financial issues affect all childrens' education, and also imo and ime many SN children do not get what they should. However. The social benefits of mainstream may heavily outweigh the disadvantages of even suboptimal teaching. So on balance she may be wrong. But maybe not.

I wonder what she'd say if she knew that our very dyslexic friend is a partner in his GP practise. He may not be the world's best speller, but he had to overcome his literacy issues through sheer hard work, and by god is he a good doctor.

Is this a thread about my thread? (can't bear to read it, sorry)

I understand why some parents with SN children would want their children in a MS school but as a parent I don't want children with specifically behavioural or intellectual problems sharing a classroom with my children. I have no issues with them being in the school per se but just not in the same classes

I am currently looking for a school with streaming and banding systems in place as I feel this would provide the best education for my LO's

No.No,No to the first 3
To the last question 'possibly' but the pragmatic thing is surely the best quality of education for the most people possible.
I want to pin you down on this
is it better for the country overall
A) for 20 disruptive children(SN and nonSN) to disrupt one another
b) for 580 non disruptive children (both SN and non SN) to be disrupted by the 20 in separate classes.

Everybody wants their child to have the best education possible and my daughter isn't

SN kids should be in main stream.... We had an SN class in our school and it did them and the rest of the school the world of good.

That view is horrible.. truelly vile..

Dont agree at all. My DD1 and DS are both dyslexic.

DD is doing GCSE mocks and with support (extra time, read the questions aloud as she does the exams in a side room) she is getting A's and B's.

I think parents should be able to decide what is the best environment for their child's education.

Not a hard and fast rule.

I agree that parents should have more access to options and shouldn't have to fight so damn hard to get them.

But I do not agree that there be a blanket "any child with any kind of disability be labelled and moved out of mainstream education".

Where do you draw the line?

Colour Blind?

Can I just say that surely no right thinking person would believe that a child with SN should be in mainstream for the good of the other children only.

So I feel a bit glum that expressing thanks for this wonderful knock on effect of inclusive education is also seen as being a negative thing. In general I mean. Maybe people are just trying to be nice and trying to support the choices families with sn children make - rather than thinking 'Oh goody a learning rescource for my child, hope that kid isn't disruptive though'

Some people really are ok. Some people will see a child with sn in their class and think 'Oh how interesting. Wonder how she's getting on. Bet Jonnie will be full of questions about this tonight. Now where is little Johnnies book bag ffs'

I think like this. Honest guv!

Of FGS I am only talking about disruptive kids.Have you READ my post???!!!???

Come on, can no-one answer

A or B ?

Victoriascrumptious

Clearly plenty of non-right thinking people out there. Lets just ignore them.

princessparty - perhaps you are being ignored as you are a fuckwit and suspected troll?

Just my 2p.

pp- you're being a bit aggressive, aren't you? Would you demand answers in this way from a bunch of friends?

princessparty "better for the country"
??
I work on better for my child(as no doubt you do)