to be appalled at the 'treatment' my daughter received at the hosptal?

[Katecat]

First AIBU but happy to hear all opinions.

DD (2.4) has had a horrible vomiting/diarrhoea bug since Friday. We'd been keeping on top of things by pushing fluids and lots of rest and she seemed ok by Sunday pm just a bit tired so I took her to the childminder on Monday morning as normal (I know but she really seemed better, loves her CM, no other children there and CM was happy to have her). CM called Monday lunchtime to say DD was unwell again,lots of vomiting.

Anyway, eventually got her to see GP around 4pm, by this time she was very pale and lethargic but had stopped vomiting - nothing left to vomit [] and the GP wanted the paeds at the hospital to see her. He rang Children's ward and was told they were really busy, lots of other children with the same bug, and to refer us to the other hospital (about 15 minutes longer drive for us) A&E department. I wasn't happy with this, it isn't a children's A&E and I can't beleive they're allowed to refuse to see a sick child? As DD clearly needed to be seen I decided to try my luck and go straight to the busy Children's ward anyway. On arrival (had to carry DD by this point) I handed my Gp's letter to the Paed who said they had not received a call and wouldn't be able to see us, I had to go to the other hospital. By this point I was very worried about DD and absolutely livid that they refused to see her even though she was clealy unwell and demanded to see the person in charge. Nurse came along and told me no way we could be seen, go to other hospital etc. There was only one other family waiting, how can they claim they're too busy? After 20 minutes of me refusing to move, Dr came back and said she would have a 'quick look' at DD but if she needed admisission there were no spare beds (why could I see 2 beds parked in the coridoor then?!). So, she decided that DD needed intravenous fluids to rehydrate her yet STILL refused to admit us and I was forced to drive my sick child to the further hospital where she was thankfully admitted quickly and got the fluid she needed (the trauma of that is another AIBU itself )and is no on the mend although still on the ward.

Sorry this is long but I am so so angry. Am I right in thinking the hospital were useless and unreasonable and the staff would have been responsible if anything had happened to DD?

You're right, of course Aitch. The problem is that even when she acknowledged the mistake, she still seemed to think that some of her behaviour was "in the right" and the hospital "in the wrong".

kerstina - I thought the standard advice with D&V bugs was to wait 48hours after last symptoms before sending children to nursery/school or yourself to work?

So how does this private health care work then? Do you get seen quicker at A&E? Or just when refered there by the GP?

Oh, and OP, YWU...do as your told next time.

You're

op - have just read your reply, didn't realise you had replied when I wrote what I did. Good on you for admitting you were in the wrong, thing is if they can't take you, they can't take you it isn't just bed space but all the associated staff and equipment and as people have already said the doors are only closed to new admissions when things are dire.

Also can I just say to the private/nhs debate. Having worked in both (across the road from each other actually)you don't get "better" treatment, (despite what the senior in my dept said about giving "that bit extra" as they are paying for it I treated them the same as I would any sick person )the same doctor just sees you quicker than in the nhs for which you pay for the privilege.

Oh and you get fluffy dressing gowns to go over your hospital gown! They weren't washed between every patient though! uuughh!!!!

(I don't work there anymore, couldn't stand it, snobby attitudes of everyone but mostly patients, like the woman who "refused to set foot in nhs hospitals" and would rather wait two extra weeks for her mammogram as the private hospital machine broke (they couldn't justify the budget for a new one) and we were taxiing everyone across to the brand new nhs hospital to be done straight away and brought back, even though the same doctor was there, the whole place and equipment was newer so gave less radiation dose and was generally not shabby like the private place, budget again) but hey she must set a lot of store by the fluffy dressing gowns

I am sorry BUT they told you not to go there, so why did you? You not listening made your DCs sufferening even worse TBH

Now you blame the NHS when you in fact blatantly ignored what you were told

sorry but YABU

This is slightly OT now, but if people knew what went on private hospitals they would not be so keen to shell out their hard earned cash. I think I raised this on another thread a while ago and was met with a "How-very-dare-you,peasant".

Private hospitals exist for consultants to make extra money, most of them are working there in addition to their full working week and the profit margin is the key to everything.

Yes, I've worked in one. Never again.

Exactly same happened to us - DD1 (when baby) becoming dehydrated and GP referred us to hospital only nearest and his preferred - Newcastle RVI - too busy and we had to go to Newcastle General - a whole 15 minutes further. They were lovely and kept us in overnight and brought out a bed for me to sleep next to her. But - it is in poorer area and the hosp has obviously seen smarter days - hmmm - were we being a bit snobby OP???

Of course "care can be denied" at a particular hospital if its full. It would be dangerous to carry on admitting kids in such a situation. I'm not suprised the Dr had an attitude with you, I bloody would have done.

YABVVVVU I presume you have no background in healthcare and no idea about how hospitals are run. How can you presume to know better than highly trained professionals who were telling you that there were no beds or staff available to treat your daughter. Did you want her laid on a bed in a corridor with no resusitation equipment nearby and no privacy??? Did you want her health put further at risk because there were no staff to look after her, or other children put at risk as already stretched resources are stretched to dangerous levels? And whilst you were arguing the toss with these medical staff they could have been treating other seriously ill patients. . What selfish behaviour! You were given an option that would have meant your daughter received prompt treatment and you chose to ignore it how dare you moan about the consequences of YOUR actions.

OP if I am understanding you correctly you feel that the ward you turned up on should have made more of an effort to see & assess your child even if they needed to be transferred elsewhere?

If I have understood you correctly there are a few reasons why this might not have happened:

1. You shouldn't have been there in the first place and had already been assesed 'fit to travel' by your GP so to speak.

2. They are by your account a ward (not an A&E dept) so not set up for rapid assessments. The staff who would have been required to help perform such an assesment were probably also v. busy. By insisting on one (which is what you got from the Paediatric Registrar - the ST3) you probably jeopordised all the kids on the wards care.

3. Your daughter might not looked that unwell to the professionals. Experienced nurses are pretty darn good at picking out the sick ones quickly. This is the crux of triage - the most unwell patients in A&E/emergency situations get treated fastest (hence folk with fingers slammed in car doors having to wait). I bet that if your daughter had turned up looking blue & having difficulty in breathing the staff would have pulled all the stops out to treat her as that would have been imminently life threatening but in this situation they judged (perhaps informally initally)that she could probably wait to start treatment.

4. If they had started treatment ie. IV fluids in hospital 1 you would have needed a nurse escort & ambulance to transfer you to hospital 2. You've told us that the ward was busy enough for them to close so I imagine that producing a nurse escort was probaby going to be pretty impossible. Much as they would like to ward managers can't just produce extra qualified/experienced nurses at the drop of a hat. Hence the decision to wait.

I still think you were VU but think deserve credit for coming back here to admit it.

As I said above I think you should seriously give some thought to writing to the ward staff to apologise for the additional stress your unwanted/ uninvited visit to their ward no doubt created.

GothAnneGeddes totally agree with you re private hospitals.

I was gobsmacked when I did some shifts at the Bupa hospital that all the doctors cleared off at about 1800. Had some patients not long back from pretty major surgery eg hip replacements.

What happens if they go off? sez me.

Call 999 and manage it until the ambulance gets there sez them.

From a nursing point of view it was cushy in some respects - low patient/nurse ratio and ward aids to do all the extra stuff eg make drinks, change beds etc. But IMO doilies on your tea tray and en suite bathrooms don't make up for the lack of readily-accessible medical care should you need it.

If I had the cash I'd probably use private healthcare for routine stuff eg scans, initial assessments etc but never for surgery.

Mum had an op years ago in a private ward of an NHS hospital. Undoubtedly it was very nice - lovely food cooked with the individual patient's need in mind, very nicely decorated private rooms. But the consultant went straight from the NHS ward to my mum and the same operating rooms were used. She (or rather the health ins company) were paying money for her stay to be nicer, not better iyswim.

Dad had an op in November. Big op, lots of care before and after. The only thing he wasn't happy about was the hanging about for discharge. He wrote and told the trust exactly that - and they wrote back to say that they are addressing it.

Sidge - Exactly, you've got patients who've had major surgery and there's no anaesthetist on site at all. What if their epidural or pain relief fails? All you've got on site is a very junior doctor. In an NHS hospital, the anaesthetist is on site.

Plus, there's the fact that surgeons are often operating either on their days off or after working a full day already. This is not a good thing.

Like you, I would never have surgery in one. Never

I totally agree with drooper and everyone else

You are a selfish idiot and put your child's life at risk

You are a complete PRAT!!

What sort of qualification do you have that you think allows you and makes you right when it comes to second guessing a doctor interms of whether your child is well enough to travel further for care or how ill and overstrecthed the hospital that you decided to go to is?

Paying for private medicine is explicitly only paying to skip queues and have nicer rooms and food though isn't it? It would never have occurred to me to think you'd get a better doctor - nor a worse one either. They're usually the same people.

There may be a clinical advantage in a private medical appointment though. There's not much a GP can do in terms of an examination in 6 mins, whereas a private GP appt would probably be 30mins so you can discuss in more detail what's bothering you. A friend who's an NHS hospital consultant told me he thought NHS cancer and heart disease care was excellent, but that everything else was sorely lacking. My experience of large NHS hospitals in London is also that they're really filthy.

Re the OP's question - I would have skipped the whole GP part and gone straight to paed A&E with my child in the situation you describe. Bit surprised you decided to do exactly what the doctors told you not to do though - you were obviously going to delay your daughter getting any care.

Hey, that's a bit strong kikisunflower and MadameCastafiore. OP was unreasonable, but her behaviour is certainly understandable in the circumstances. She's already been back and agreed that she was unreasonable, which shows a lot of grace in reconsidering her position in the light of feedback.

Sidge - I think most of the legal claims against private hospitals relate to immediate post op medical care - i.e none depending on what time of day it is!

Blimey Sidge & co - that's an eye-opener!

My mum has Bupa through my Dad's work, but has always been treated on the NHS and Bupa apparently pay them for each night in an NHS hospital. Sounds like a pretty good deal in the light of your experiences!

MadameCasta you seem often to find the need to be plain nasty on AIBU I've noticed.

OP has admitted she was wrong. She understands she was silly to take her DD to a hospital which had said they were full.

I absolutely do not see the need for name calling when OP has already apologised...

sassy I'm not surprised!

Also worth bearing in mind that when people pay for private surgery esp cosmetic surgery, the price usually includes only your op and immediate post op stay in hospital and treatment. If things go wrong after you have been discharged you have to jog on back to the good old NHS to pick up the pieces...

I have a regular patient who I see 3 times a week for wound care; I've seen her 3 times a week every week since she had her private op back in October. The hospital don't want to know at all, so we (ie her GP surgery) are spending an hour a week doing her dressings and it's cost her a bomb in dressings, medication etc.

I bet the private companies don't warn you of that when they sign you up.

Yes yes yes IWBVVVVU, I get that now and to be honest am a little embarrassed now you've said I may have come across aggressive and probably did take the staff away from patients. That was awful of me and not at all what I'm like in real life - I'm quite nice really! So, now that I've calmed down and DD is home and looking so much better, what can I do by way of apology to the ward staff at first hospital and thanks to those at the second? Any ideas gratefully received.

To answer the last few points:

-Childminder was happy to have her, had had the bug last week (probably where DD got it!), DD wanted to go, I really needed her to go. In hindsight maybe silly but didn't seem it at the time

-Snobbery not involved at all, the 2nd hospital is pretty new and swish and in the much nicer area, but the A&E has a dreadful reputation locally for patient care. 1st hospital in much less attractive area (where we live )

-The ward is set up for assessing and admitting, there's a specific GP referral area where you are sent to be seen, there's no A&E, good or otherwise, at this hospital. Not trying to justify my actions, just thought I'd explain how it works here.

Anyway, thanks for all your input. I'm off to join in some other threads now to try and prove I'm not a total horror. Hope I can be forgiven

Katecat good on you for coming back after the slating you've received. I can see you got the message

It's a nice idea to want to apologise to the staff at the first hospital. Could you drop a tin of biscuits into them with a little notelet apologising for your actions the other night. They won't expect it and I'm sure they understand that you were irrational anxious but a kind word (and biscuits) is IME always well received.

Ah - I think it is nice to want to apologise to the staff, a tin of sweets and a little note would restore their faith in human kind.

NHS workers rarely get any acknowledgement for their work, the few times we do receive a thonkyou note, nevermind anything else we really appreciate it, it makes our day xxx

Chocs and biscuits are well received but we do tend to get a lot of them. If they have any sort of appeal running you could donate to it and write and tell them why. Or bake a cake if that's your thing. Tbh they will appreciate anything you care to do.