To expect DD to go to university?

[WashwithCare]

Chatting away on an unrelated issue, I uttered the immortal words "when DD goes to universtiy"... another mother immediately jumped in. She chided that I couldn't just "assume" DD would either want or be able to go to university..

DD is 3 and has just started pre-school. However, I definitely do ASSUME she will go to University, and not just any University, but a "good" one to boot. Preferably to do a 'proper' subject.

AIBU?

Quattro I'm a bit older than you (I am old!) but I think your figures are more accurate . I just remember at the time the figure being stated was 3%. Still nothing like today's figures though and irrelevant if your child simply isn't bright enough to cut it. The only difference between when I went to uni and now is the huge increase in further education providers although not necessarily an increase in quality.

well, as Nooka mentioned
"I expect my children to go to university, as my parents expected me and my siblings to go to university. It never felt like a pressure to me, I just assumed that education finished at 21, as that is what everyone in my family did, and what most of my friends did too"
But when one of my brother's 4 children went to business school rather than "proper" uni that was't a big deal either.

Nooka said
"I expect my children to go to university, as my parents expected me and my siblings to go to university. It never felt like a pressure to me, I just assumed that education finished at 21, as that is what everyone in my family did, and what most of my friends did too"

You know, this makes me think how badly 'expectations' can work on children. This is obviously a bit of an extreme example, but my parents 'expected' us to learn to read around 3 (dyslexia put paid to that). The 'expected' we would get 10A* (none of us did), they expected we'd go to Oxbridge and, now that my brother is 21 and the only one of us without a postgraduate degree, they are finding it very hard to accept he won't do a Masters.

I know this isn't comparable with what WWC is saying, but expectations grow. When we were 3, I suspect all mum and dad 'expected' was that we'd go to university. But then we seemed to be doing so well, so why not raise the expectation?

I think my parents were ever so caring and concerned about education, but I can assure you, children are aware of the pressure. It is not a pleasant experience to be constantly striving to fulfill mummy's 'expectations'.

(Btw, Nooka, I was just springboarding off your comment - it wasn't intended as a criticism of you.)

My ds is adamanat he doesn't want to go to uni and i always just assumed he would! he is now 15 and going to college in sept to do A levels but says he is going to have a gap year after that and then work! I haven't pressured him and think its his decision in the end.he may change his mind when his friends start applying but I really don't mind.There is no guarantee of a good job as a graduate I know many on the dole atm and back at home although I think its a good experience I think the world has changed and it is not what it was.

I'm embarassed to admit that we do assume our 4DC will go to university. Dh working in an average kind of old university and all that (obviously a failure as not working in a Russell Group institution). But we bend over backwards to tell our DC that they don't have to go to university, and that there is life outside education.

I hope that we make the DC believe that we mean this too, because in spite of our assumptions about their future, we really do want them to do what makes them happy - ok, that sounds fairly vomit-inducing but it is true.

I don't expect my dc to go to university. I suspect it's likely, as it's the norm in my family and in DP's family too, most of us have rather too many degrees and qualifications. But I don't have much time for students who aren't bothered about their courses. I'd rather anyone who wasn't keen to study didn't bother going (and stopped wasting their lecturers' time).

It's a bit early for mine yet, but I'll encourage my dc to go with their own motivation and dreams, whether that's for university or something else.

I actually assumed that DD would go to university - I was packing up her newborn clothes and getting a bit sniffly that she's never going to be my tiny baby again. I then thought, what the hell am I going to do when she goes to university if I cry over clothes! Just how I assume life goes.

My parents went to Oxford, and I went to a school where it was just assumed that you went to university, my parents assumed this as well, and I never felt pushed into it, it was just what you did after your GCSEs and A Levels. I'm glad I did, it opened many doors that otherwise would have been impossible, I wouldn't have got a working visa to go to Japan, wouldn't have got my first proper job in London...

Ultimately it is up to DD, and if she doesn't want to/can't do it then I'll adjust expectations accordingly (not in a negative way just different) and we'll be fine. Same way I assume that she'll get married and have babies of her own one day but if she came home with a girlfriend and wanted a civil partnership I would adjust again

Interested to note Durham is not Russell Group. Does that mean it isn't a 'proper' university?

My mother was very much of WWC's ilk and harangued all of us into going to university. I went to Durham, did law and then went on to be a lawyer at a magic circle firm. It was miserable, but brilliant pay. To be fair, it has given DH and I some good financial security (have now left to work at a large regional firm and pg with DC1) but I'm not sure if I would do the same thing again if I had not been 'forced' down that route. No, scrap that - I definitely wouldn't have!

My brother went to Liverpool and did dentistry and is now working as a dentist, hating it and wants to quit to take up photography full time. He is (IMO) an extremely talented photographer, but my mother is outraged that he should give up a 'profession' to do somethint that he loves and is gifted at

My sister went to an ex-poly and is now a primary school teacher who cannot get a job for love nor money. She currently works two mornings a week at the local hospital.

Have any of us really benefited from our education? You could say so I suppose - my brother and I have 'traditional' professions that are reasonably well-paid. BUT the thing is, it is highly possible to be successful without going to university as my DH proves. He applied to uni but decided not to go and now runs his own business. He was earning more than me at last count - and he's 2 years younger. He made an active decision not to take up his place at uni and had a clear plan of what he wanted to do instead. He has often said he would like to go back to study for pleasure one day if he ever gets rich enough to manage it

Our DC(s) will be given all the information we can provide about university and we will support him/her/them in any decision about whether or not to go. They will be made aware that a degree is not a guarantee of a graduate job, but that the experience of living away from home, meeting a ton of new people and studying something that is of interest to them should not be regarded as merely a means to an end.

YABU to assume that your DD will go to university - but I can see why a parent would make that assumption, and why you would think that university gives her more options for the future. I think on the whole that it is much harder to take the route that my DH did and try to make your way in the world at 18 and miss out on the life experience of going to university. I would rather, though, that if my DC didn't know what they wanted to do, that they took some time out to think about it (and undertake some interesting work or travel or whatever in the interim) rather than make a rushed decision about where and what to study that might prove to be a mistake. I would never ever choose to go into law again - that was a rushed decision that has haunted me ever since!

Oh good grief... I haven't packed her bags and started sending away for prospectuses... isn't it an expectation more a long the lines of, I assume she will live into adulthood, one day be able to make her sausage sandwiches one day and learn to read and write.

But reading through the responses.. it does feel as though some posters have had the luxury of rather priviledged backgrounds themselves, which afforded them an easy passage to University - something which perhaps lead them to not value the wonderful opportunity they had quite as much as they should...

DS1 has been charting university's for the past 3 years, pass rates and so on..... He is only just 13!!

WWC, I notice in a post on 8th Jan you said you were expecting your first baby. Now you have a 3 year old dd. Which is it?

Aaaargh - WWC has been very clear on her posts that she has a 3 year old with a previous partner and is expecting her first baby with her new partner.

WWC - I work with someone who decided that her daghter is going to be a golf pro, then go to University and become a Doctor. Said dd was 4 years old at the time and the mother in question was deadly serious (albeit with an almost visible chip on her shoulder about her own perceived deprivations in her younger life).

Perfectly normal in my view to want the same if not a bit more for your children than you had in terms of education and career prospects. This just has to be tempered with recognition that the former do not necessarily equate to quality of life which is the most important thing and can be found by other means than the "best" education and a professional career. Also remember that many children have a tendancy to rebel against their parents. My mother would have loved me to get knocked up at 16, have 5 kids and live just around the corner. Instead it was Uni, move miles away, career and only just pg with first child at 35. I would not be at all surprised to find my children wishing they had family closer, a younger mum and reverting to the kind of person my own mum is. Or indeed having their own completely unique ides about how to live their life. That's what I'm looking forward to most.

Washwithcare, you say:

'Oh good grief... I haven't packed her bags and started sending away for prospectuses... isn't it an expectation more a long the lines of, I assume she will live into adulthood, one day be able to make her sausage sandwiches one day and learn to read and write.'

I suspect you didn't get as far in your reading as Riven's response to this thread. But please go and read it: it might make you realize what a truly inappropriate and offensive comparison you've just made.

PS - I'm not buying into all the slanging of WWC at the moment; I am assuming (!) that she has made a genuine error in choosing this comparison after Riven's comment. But I still think she should read and think more.

I admit to not having read the whole thread but I don't think that parents should live through their DCs or decide which route they want to take. You might hope that your DC goes (although with the expense these days -and with even more expense in the future you might hope they don't!!)but you shouldn't be mapping out their future. If you want to do something and have ambitions-do it yourself-it is never too late!
It is utterly ridiculous to say that your 3 yr old will go. Your 3 yr old may get to 18 and not want to go! I know many a very bright teenager who has refused the route. I have 2 there and one who left school at 16yrs. I predict that the one that left at 16 yrs will ultimately be the most successful. He may go one day in the future -if he wants to go. I am equally proud of his dicisions and he is doing very well indeed.He has just been put forward for a special award.
Encourage and support-but leave it to them!
Maybe they want to be a landscape gardener, a car mechanic or a hairdresser.

Sorry -decisions

Having a degree (albeit at a, ahem, affliated college- my certificate SAYS Exeter tho.... LOL), I have not found it terribly useful because I wasn't sure what to do with it, and not given adequate advice when I decided teaching might not be for me (still work in that field mind). I am now in a situation where I need to get a qualification to continue my job... and BECAUSE I have a degree, I cannot get any funding/support of any kind, to pay for it.

The friends who didn't go to uni seem to have done much better really. PLUS some are doing uni later, or doing so through work.

My main aim for my children is to encourage them to ASPIRE to any job they want to do, and as they get older, focus on what they need to do to get there. We talk about anything they like to do, and see what work there is in that field. I firmly think that if someone had given me more ideas/advice, I wouldn't be stuck for them now. (other than telling me I was too thick and shouldn't think high... cheers then).

Oh Riven - I am sorry. I hadn't read your post, and my comment was a co-incidental throw away remark. I'm very sorry to hear about your daughter's health. Please accept my apologies.

The reason Durham isn't a Russell Group as emsyj notes puts the whole RG thing into perspective, as it is a very highly respected university in academic terms, more so than some of the RG univesrities. But RG is to do with things like the size of our research budget: Durham is very highly regarded, but quite small.

Not so sure about the privileged background thing: my Dad (if you read my posts) certainly didn't come from one and he had to sacrifice enough to get an education; yet he was able to survive the shock of his son choosing to load cars onto a ferry instead of going to university. Tough man, my Dad. Possibly to do with those lean years of his youth.

I think some folks are looking at things the wrong way - a good general degree (say in Economics or a modern language) from a decent University is never a disadvantage.

It may not guarantee you a good job, (my receptionist has a degree in history from an old uni) but for most "good" jobs, a degree is a prerequisite.

It's all very well saying you can earn a lot of money without one. That's true - you can... but there's a reason why jobs which don't require much education pay well. They are usually dangerous or bloody, bloody hard work.

Yes, of course, it's important to be happy. Happy is good. However, you can be a happy clappy photographer/hairdresser etc., with a degree - and then at least you can change your mind....

And if happy is important and it is - all the research on "good work" that makes people happy and less stressed and more likely to be healthy - says you need work with autonomy, lack of monotony and to feel justly rewarded. So a stockmarket trader is apparently less stressed than a hospital cleaner. You don't need a degree to get a job with all those positive qualities- but it helps.

Anyway, I'm not exactly suggesting boot camp - doing a degree is a amazing - meeting different people, your own sink to puke in, earnest debate, the biggest library, deep discussions.....

If she doesn't want to go, no one will force her - but until she tells me she ain't, I am going to assume she will.

You still haven't told us how you went from being pregnang with your first child to having a 3 yr old in the space of a week though