To expect DD to go to university?

[WashwithCare]

Chatting away on an unrelated issue, I uttered the immortal words "when DD goes to universtiy"... another mother immediately jumped in. She chided that I couldn't just "assume" DD would either want or be able to go to university..

DD is 3 and has just started pre-school. However, I definitely do ASSUME she will go to University, and not just any University, but a "good" one to boot. Preferably to do a 'proper' subject.

AIBU?

I think it will be interesting to see what happens if they hugely reduce the number of institutions that receive funding for PhD students. That will have such a big impact on departments (including the education of undergraduates) that we could end up with a 2 tier system again, but with a top tier that is smaller than all of the old universities.

If that did happen there would have to be much better mechanisms for ensuring that people from a wide range of backgrounds could attend that top tier.

Well, to be exact, my ds or dd needs to assess the strength of the department, not me. They will be young adults by then.

I hope that if mind do go they choose a subject that I know nothing about, so that all temptation to interfere in their choices and life as adults is removed.

yes but they are still so young when making these huge choices - you - the adult- have to help

'The probability of a baby going to university can basically be quite accurately predicted if you know the parental educaiton and income. Sorry - sad, but true!'

You're talking crap. What you mean is that one can predict the proportion of children who will go to university, who belong to this socio-economic group. But what you have is a real child, who already brings other factors into play. What if she already belongs to another subgroup you've not noticed yet? Perhaps she has autism, like the lovely son of a friend of mine, who looked very bright when he was 3. Just an example, but do you not see that you're being silly?

Err... little reddragon, I think we are agreeing here... I said I could predict the probability of whether baby goes or not, not whether baby will actually go ....

I hope (although I don't have high hopes) that one of the shake ups is in social background and entrance, so that it becomes absurd for anyone, however 'super-high earning' to assume that their child has a right to one of only a small number of places available at the research universities.

Awww MillyR - you just sound sour - never attractive quality in a lady y'know

NotAnOtter Tue 19-Jan-10 22:54:17
"yes but they are still so young when making these huge choices - you - the adult- have to help"

I was an adult when I was 18: I made my choices and looked after myself. So did my brothers, though for two of them, the choice did not include uni. My nephews and nieces have also made their own choices and taken responsibility for their lives at this age.

Have no particular reason to believe that my own dcs will be any more helpless.

Cory

Tutor, as in student eking out my grant - it was the olden days... rest assured, no pastoral role...

I was referring to the Research Council practice of asking in which quartile your first was [sigh]

Oh, I don't know. Russell group Schmussel group. A 2:1 from Imperial means fuck all in the real world on it's own. There is so much more required of young people these days.
I worked for a very high profile, desirable employer for many years and Oxbridge graduates with the wrong attitude were passed over for graduates from supposedly shite universities because they showed a bit of chutzpah and the ability to create their own chances.

There is of course still an old boy's network, but I'd rather my children fought against that than became part of it...

Er ... so, I repeat: if we agree, why do you expect your child to go?

It's fine if you don't understand basic statistics, but why put this pressure on your child?

You are such a wind-up merchant WWC. Got everyone going with this one, haven't you? Wonder if it'll get to 1000! Hee hee!

And you're still cross about the s. Blatantly.

I think that adults can help their young adult children. I would expect to give my children the same level of support and advice that I give to my SIL, who is considering returning to HE.

The problem comes when some parents attend open days with their children and do all the talking for the child.

It is just a matter of finding a balance between disinterest and over-involvement.

YABU, your friend is right. You cannot live your dreams through your child. She is just a toddler fgs enjoy her now instead of worrying about what will happen in 15 years time. Your daughter might not want to go and opt for another career or she might not be able to go.

Your attitude towards RG universities does not seem entirely consistent WWC. Otoh you want your dd to go there not just to get a nice piece of paper, but to learn critical thinking. Otoh you think our standards are so low that it is impossible to fail your degree. If standards are that poor, what guarantee have you that your dd will take away anything worth having?

Er ... so, I repeat: if we agree, why do you expect your child to go?

I appreciate it isnt' a statistical certainty simply on the basis of my education and income.

Probably because I am determined and an optimist, and I believe education is important.

I'm also not convinced you can be neutral - parents send out powerful messages whether they mean to or not.

And maybe because I am influenced by my own childhood - I am the only person in my family to have any qualification what so ever - and my life is very different because of that in many respects (not just income). I would like DD to have those opportunities too.

not 'helpless' cory
but at just 17 i think it is worth while asking the advice of others unless the child incredibly foresighted ( if there is such a word)

So if your dd decides, as my nephew did, that she has a good business idea which would involve learning more about something she is really interested in, would you not see that as valuable? And would you really want to kick her butt for taking a decision that might be different from the one you took?

Personally, I don't want my children to be my clones. If I want job satisfaction, I'll have to get that for myself. Dd and ds have to work out what would give them satisfaction in life.

My Dad half-starved himself through university, on some kind of poor scholar's grant, first of his family to go and all that. He's still coped with the idea that what was the most important thing in the world for him doesn't have to be the most important thing for his children.

My dcs are already growing up- dd now at secondary school. And I can see clearly that though they are interesting people, very interested in things, they are nothing like me. Their priorities may well not be my priorities.

Advice, yes, notanotter, as in practical advice. "How do I apply, what university has the best reputation if I am interested in this, what do you think they will ask about at interview" etc. But not "what ought I to be interested in". Big difference.

By cory Tue 19-Jan-10 23:08:00
Your attitude towards RG universities does not seem entirely consistent WWC. Otoh you want your dd to go there not just to get a nice piece of paper, but to learn critical thinking. Otoh you think our standards are so low that it is impossible to fail your degree. If standards are that poor, what guarantee have you that your dd will take away anything worth having?

I think she has a better chance of learning critical thinking at a RG Uni... and a nicer library to boot

Are you male or female cory?

No pressure then! Just because a person has a degree does not guarantee them a job, there are so many graduates even those from Oxbridge cannot find one, especially in this economic climate and have to do jobs with less skill. Someone I know who went to Oxford and studied Metallegy at Masters level, is now working in the benefits office. Years ago a degree used to be obtained by the creme de la creme, now any Tom, Dick, or Harry can get one and somehow it has been dumbed down and not worth as much as it was.

I quite like the idea of foresighted being a word...

WashwithCare Tue 19-Jan-10 23:20:33

"Are you male or female cory?"

Female. Why? Any particular reason for asking?

My dds gf is a doctor and her Uncles are surgeons and consultants i would love her to go into medicine but he ho she is only 2.10, at the end of the day i want dd to be happy, of course i want her to have ambition and to go to uni, but if she is not up to it then i jsut want her to be happy and do a vocation that she likes.

agree cory totally agree

you still have to 'guide' but deffo not 'steer' them iyswim

i would be thrilled for my child to follow a 'passion' if that is what they wanted...

a lot in life can depend on ejucayshun though...and folk tend IME to have regrets if they don't get a good one

in my experience only

By cory Tue 19-Jan-10 23:25:26
WashwithCare Tue 19-Jan-10 23:20:33

"Are you male or female cory?"

Female. Why? Any particular reason for asking?

Just trying to build a picture of you - that's all...

Right - now I think I need to take my heavily pg unkicked butt to its bed. Nice chatting. W. x