To think that the council should not be leaving a single mum, with her three children to kip down on her mothers floor

[ijustwanttoaskaquestion]

I am not entirely sure of all the details but i just feel that the situation my niece is being left in is not right, as in, i think something has gone wrong with her local council housing system.

So, she is 23 has three under three, her partner left her when she was pregnant with her third - he just disappeared. Hes a twunt apparently, well rid. They had a rented place but he didnt pay the rent so they were evicted. Because of this, the council told my neice she was "intentionally homeless" and woudlnt put her on the waiting list. Eventually she contacted her MP who contacted the council, as it was not my niece who was evicted but her partner who she now has nothing to do with. She was told she was a priority case and was given a password for the online bidding system. She since has her third child and informed the council - now, this is second hand, but apparently she was told this "we have changed the system now, you are now on the bottom of the list and you can expect to be living on your mother's floor for the next three to five years".

She has three children, she sleeps on the sofa and the children are sleeping in travel cots. Her mum basically lives in her bedroom, although why its like that i dont know - its a three bedroom housing association house, but there is the my neice, her mum, her brother living there - the third bedroom which was my nieces is a box room and apparently being used for storage.

This cannot be right?? Surely, leaving aside the fact that she was less than sensible to put herself in this situation by not sorting out contraception after the first child, there are still three children living in unacceptable conditions. Apparently, my niece is coping very well but it must be so hard for her.

She does not get on with her housing officer and feels she is prejudiced against her for getting the MP involved in the first instance, i cant say whether this is true or not.

What can she do?? Can she not rent privately and claim housing benefit? The council have told her they wont support her in this.

As i say, i don't know the full situation but wondered if anyone has any advice for organisations to approach etc - people to write too, appropriate thigns to write to the council to make sure her case is being handled properly.

I dont want to say where she lives in case she is a mnetter. But i know it varies from council to council. I just find it hard to believe that someone in her position wouldn't be on the priority housing list.

I often take your stance shiregirl and purple - in essense i agree with you and with every pregnancy that was announced i was too. But this girls situation has made me think, the problem is, she doesn't share your intellect or common sense, she has been let down severely by her very first boyfriend - in my opinion he took advantage of her sexually as well. She may have been nineteen but she was very childlike, has mild learning difficulties. So yes, she made some crap decisions, and will probably rely on benefit for the rest of her children's young lives - but this doesn't make her a bad person. There are plenty of lazy fuckers who take advantage of the benefit system, but she is actually one person who the benefit system is there to support. This has taught me not to judge others too quickly - she did not get pregnant to get housed, she was taken for a mug by her idiot boyfriend - the mistake she made was getting involved with him, but her self esteem was so low i guess she didnt think she deserved better. So yes, i get pissed off with people taking advantage of the benefit system but it would be a poor show if we were just to abandon people like this - as virgin said, those children have done no wrong and neither imvho has their mother.

humpty you are exactly right, there are probably things that i haven't been told. I have given my MIL relevant numbers to approach for help - i wont be involved anymore as there is little i can do from a distance, different council area.

*anniebeans" yes, i fear that you too are correct, when she was with her not so DP, they rented a house but from what i heard the landlord wasn't very good - all very odd, the house was "in half" but with only one meter, repairs not carried out etc - but they got bad advice from relations and stopped paying the rent in protest, ended up with them being evicted. However the house was in her pertners name - they weren;t on benefits by the way.

I personally think this girls mother could do more to make the situation more bearable because actually if she were my daughter, due to her intellect i wouldn't want her living out of my home its a very sad situation, but i have to say - she is really a very good mum so those children wont be in want of love

Because frog familliesdon'talways work like that sadly.My aprents kept me on the sofafor two years when I moved back home from college (ill) becuase they were scared I would move back into their council house permanently and they didn't want me, they wanted me to think sod this a bedsit would be better. My guess is a parent who does that isn't one who is going to move roomsor whatever.

There's been many threads about how council house tenants should be amde to downsize: I agree provided it's written in the lease from day one so people can make decisiomns based on that (the amount my parents have spent on their council house is astronomical- long story, shouldn't be there any more, but pensions ollpased preventing planned move to opwn bungalow in lieu of a life on on HB when not expecting it- and they would have saved all the cash spent on heating etc had they had held a semi permanent lease).

In a functionalfamily surely Mum would have made the adjustments necessary to let kids and mum have a room?Maybe not kicked son out- bit harsh, IME usually a reason why adult sons are there

But if Mumreally isn'tgoing to take her backmproperly (and I would any ofmine) she should be making her properly homeless: you can't give her half a refuge and deny her thewmeans to find other sources, that's just cruel.

Agree with the posters who suggest she finds a private flat/house to rent and applies for housing benefit which she is entitled to.
Would be much nicer for her and her DCs am sure than living in a dodgy council area, as long as she can find a landlord who is happy to accept her as a tenant (housing benefit can mean delays in rent payment).

I agree that CAB is worth a visit, they are often very helpful in such cases.
Hope she finds something better, current sitution sounds grim.

tiffany. not sure benefits really come into it. re: moving goalposts, that's why i thought op did not have all the details.
is she eligible for housing benefit? you can go to council and ask how much she would be entitled to before starting to research rental properties

The council is not providing a house for the mother - HA properties are not the same as Council.

OK the mild LD bit mademe think.

When i worked for homestart we supported a fewwomen in just her position, could you give her Mum the number for themperhaps, or get her to ask her HV? They can helpwith access to housing as well, I wrote quite a few supporting applications.If her LD is a factor aswell,SSD should be able to help in a positive way.

CAB arealso very good in this sort of case.

Absolutely the benefits sytem is there to help young mums left by their aprtners yes, doubly so if their faculty to make sensible decisions is diminshed.

ijustwanttoask I feel for you. You are trying to help sort out a situation which you haven't been told all the facts and where maybe if you had been involved from the begining might have been handled differently. My in laws are similar, they moan about money/housing/benefits etc but when you offer advice or support they won't take it. For example my sil was on sick pay from work following an operation. Her sick pay has stopped (legitamately, as she has had lots of time off, not becuase company is denying her), so she should go to jobcentre and apply for another benefit. she won't go, despite being told, she only has to get a form ffs, but then complains of having no money
dh has told me it's not worth getting upset over, she has the info but refuses to use it, so what can you do?
Don't mean you should give up on your neice but if she has been offered help and given support and details of where to go for help, then what can you do?
Sorry to sound depressing

ijustwanttoaskaquestion She may not have been on housing benefit with her previous partner, but I am assuming that were she to apply for a property through a letting agent, she would have to be on benefits - how else would she afford the rent?

Regardless of my feelings on benefits and council houses, I truly hope she manages to sort something out for herself and her children.

spicemonster - the council is paying the rent!

It does sound as if this girl is exactly who the benefit system is there to support. But I think she would have to be homeless and spend some time in b&b to jump up the list in my experience. It just shows that there really is a desperate need to write into HA and council contracts that downsizing is required when circumstances change.

hhmmm, the downsizing thing is a whole different ball game isnt it - the mum im sure keeps the adult son there because he helps out financially in a big way - she works full time but never seems to have any money - the house is HA.

Im not sure i agree with the downsizing thing, i do and i dont but my mum lives in a three bedroom council house, all by herself, its in alovely road, with only a few other council houses - has a lovely garden which she takes great pride in. When my dad was alive they never claimed a days benefit in their lives, they have lived there for at least 40 years and would have paid off the mortgage on that property 20 times im sure in rent - im not entirely sure she should be made to downsize really. They always carried our repairs themselves as the council workers do such a shabby job - so very profitable for the council indeed. Again, there are families that would love that house - tis a difficult one and a different thread too

Thanks everyone for your opinions and advice - all taken onboard and passed on.

Have mentioned homestart in the past - will push that, sad thing is, DN is very wary of SS and that sort of thing as she is worried that they think she can't cope, she can, surprisingly well.

Yes I can see it now, my dh dies and the following day I get a letter from the council or HA telling me that as I know live in the hosue alone I shall have to be moved asap and give me a months notice to move.

they have got a property two miles away, away from all my friends, away from the socila lunch club a use.

great I havn't even greived for my dh, I shall not have the support of friends or the lunch club to go to - as it is to far to travel to.
I have lived in this house for the last 50 years, my dc where born here, lived her were married from here.

Move I will, pine and grieve I will and die quicker from heart break..some of you really are heartless

Oh yes, If we could just go back to the 1850 for the lack of compassion and the attitude that the poor are thick and lazy and do not need relief just to work hard till they drop

I had made mistakes in my life - there are some on here that are perfect - please do tell me how on earth you lead perfect lives. Oh and do be careful as your ivory towers are a long way up and a great fall often will bruise your pride

good post ivy - thankfully my mum wasn't put in your situation - i feel for you

Ivy - I am poor, grew up very poor and watching every penny (and I mean every penny), have to work all hours to get by and certainly dont lead a perfect life. So dont assume those of us that appear heartless live in ivory towers. But as a homeowner you often have to downsize to survive as you get older, and I know loads of old people who have had to move out of area to do just that. Its survival and just because the council pays your rent doesnt mean you should be protected from it surely. There seems to be an assumption that those of us not on benefits have an easy life without sacrifice and it is simply not true.

And no, nobody is heartless enough to believe that it should all be done as quickly as you describe. But each circumstance should be seen individually.

well said frog, in fact I do wonder if my life would be easier if I was on benefits.
I grew up in a council house, there were 4 of us children and Mum and Dad. We managed. Of course we deserved better, but the world doesn't work like that.
Of course I sympathise with the young girl and her children but the welfare stat is there to help people who can't help themselves, or who have no-one else to help them. This girl has a mother and a brother. Isn't it the family's job to look after each other?

Oh so there are people in ivory towers that don't judge others rashly or heartlessly?
How long would you let the widow stay in her home before you evicted her then?

Each circumstance should be seen individually, why not treat everyone with compassion.

spice, in some areas, HA is council. they are one and the same because councils (more and more of them) transfer their remaining stock in exchange for The Treasury writing off the debt they racked up on the housing.

I'm not entirely sure what you are on about Ivykaty44. None of us on here are perfect, nor do we lead perfect lives. You preach about ivory towers and everyone judging this girl heartlessly but perhaps you have failed to realise that it is also a long fall from your high horse as well!

This isn't about a widow losing her house - this is about a young girl with 3 children who needs help - whether that comes from family or the council is irrelevant.

I understand that Ivy- in fact thats my worry for my aprents:they live in a 3 bed house, they dioactually use the bedrooms for their grandkids (I know, not a real need although my sis has deptression stemming from PND, one sis has a Dh with a potentially terminally ill condition and I have two disabled nboys nobody elsecan take so there's a thing between real need and real need IYSWIM). They put in decent heating,the garden is a marvelpeoplecome to visit and they would get palced somewhere with no trasnport links because of the way it is back home- neither drives, noth have mobility issues but won't claim DLA.Mumcares for Grandad so wouldn't be able toaccess him either (he lives in a village). They didn't everc laim a penny until theirp ensions collpased-two comapny pensions for different employers within the same year.

There has to be someway of helping people move on, compulsory eviction isn't it,and maintainintg community would have to be factor.

I am on benefits now:back to the 2 disabled kids and Dh having been made redundant so combining poorly paid work with retraining (so not IS but TC's and some HB for the meantime). The worst thing about it is the feeling of being a scrote living offothers,it gets me severely down at times, despite doing some collegecourses for ifI ever can get something in place. There should be mroeways to helppeople moveon, but as a Carer I am not entitled to any helpwith finding work (becuase I cost the Government £53 per week asopposed to £500 for a care placement for just one of the boys).
It'snot something I would wish on anyone tbh, and I hope she finds a way out, but right now she needs help. And that helpmay not be forthcoming from afamily who may not have helped protect their vulnerable daughter in the first palce.

'If your niece had been evicted and told the council of this and physically been put on the street, she would have been rehoused. '

She would have been placed in temp accommodation (a flat, B&B or hostel). And, depending on the decision and/or appeal as to whether or not she was intentionally or unintentionally homeless, either eventually offered social accommodation (keep in mind it can take years in some areas) or forced to find private let.

It is no longer automatically a given that someone will be offered social (HA or council) accommodation because they have been evicted.

ijustwant, please help this woman sort out some decent contraception.

There are a few posts about people wanting concil houses given up when there nuber in the family falls - that is what I was repling about, the fact that a dh could die and then within a short space of time be moved to a smaller property and there could be a lots of people in different situation that this policy would effect and this would move people away from their friends and family and perhaps in some situations they would not be mobile enough to visit them.

There are many reasons why people end up in difficult situations, this woman did not reaslise that having three dc was going to be a problem and her b/f would leave her. there were some posts early inthis thread say she had made mistakes, those people are in that way saying that they never make mistakes or the people they are with will never leave them - no one knows what is around the corner and people can leave in two ways death or walk out.

Hope this explains why I have posted and why I find some attitudes so heartless, as I think they are mean spirited and thoughtless,

I didn't know that expat - I stand corrected

ivykaty44
I have never said that I have never made mistakes. Of course we have all made mistakes. The trick is to then deal with the consequences.
Life is about choices, some are good and some are bad.
If you cannot learn valuable life lessons from the bad choices you make then why should you expect everyone else to pick up the pieces?
I am fully aware that we never know what is around the corner. I have had more traumatic life experiences than most people could cope with.
Does that make me heartless or without compassion?
According to you it does. I call it being a realist.

Our council is one of those where it's now all HA. There are several HAs, some of which only do sheltered housing for the elderly, some of which only do shared ownership, some of which only operate in certain areas, and one big dominant one.

Glasgow also has no more 'council', it's all HA now.