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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that the council should not be leaving a single mum, with her three children to kip down on her mothers floor

290 replies

ijustwanttoaskaquestion · 26/12/2009 21:21

I am not entirely sure of all the details but i just feel that the situation my niece is being left in is not right, as in, i think something has gone wrong with her local council housing system.

So, she is 23 has three under three, her partner left her when she was pregnant with her third - he just disappeared. Hes a twunt apparently, well rid. They had a rented place but he didnt pay the rent so they were evicted. Because of this, the council told my neice she was "intentionally homeless" and woudlnt put her on the waiting list. Eventually she contacted her MP who contacted the council, as it was not my niece who was evicted but her partner who she now has nothing to do with. She was told she was a priority case and was given a password for the online bidding system. She since has her third child and informed the council - now, this is second hand, but apparently she was told this "we have changed the system now, you are now on the bottom of the list and you can expect to be living on your mother's floor for the next three to five years".

She has three children, she sleeps on the sofa and the children are sleeping in travel cots. Her mum basically lives in her bedroom, although why its like that i dont know - its a three bedroom housing association house, but there is the my neice, her mum, her brother living there - the third bedroom which was my nieces is a box room and apparently being used for storage.

This cannot be right?? Surely, leaving aside the fact that she was less than sensible to put herself in this situation by not sorting out contraception after the first child, there are still three children living in unacceptable conditions. Apparently, my niece is coping very well but it must be so hard for her.

She does not get on with her housing officer and feels she is prejudiced against her for getting the MP involved in the first instance, i cant say whether this is true or not.

What can she do?? Can she not rent privately and claim housing benefit? The council have told her they wont support her in this.

As i say, i don't know the full situation but wondered if anyone has any advice for organisations to approach etc - people to write too, appropriate thigns to write to the council to make sure her case is being handled properly.

I dont want to say where she lives in case she is a mnetter. But i know it varies from council to council. I just find it hard to believe that someone in her position wouldn't be on the priority housing list.

OP posts:
curiositykilledhaskittens · 28/12/2009 15:53

happymumofone - stonking lack of understanding of the welfare state there, well done! Tax credits will not pay for all of the childcare and the girl with low IQ will certainly be looking at a minimum wage job so that will mean her children will be put in the cheapest crappiest nursery which will still, more than likely, cost the government more than paying her to stay at home with the children and she will still need topping up with benefits to make ends meet. Her children will grow up in a worse state of poverty.

NancyDrewRocks · 28/12/2009 16:44

Cleosmam You mention several times that your partner was "extremely well off until he left"

Do you mean that he is no longer working since he left and is no longer well off?

Or is he just failing to support you and his DC?

Original poster
ijustwanttoaskaquestion · 28/12/2009 16:47

the mother works full time not part time - she is being unhelpful in as much as she wont shift the sleeping arrangements so that the children have a room to sleep in, it would be possible, if she REALLY wanted to. Thats the last i have to say really.

OP posts:
butterscotch · 28/12/2009 17:40

ijustwanttoaskaquestion - if she is in London some of the London HA's have excellent support systems in place that will help her!

I don't know if there is a PM facility on here? But if you let me know the borough the mother lives in I might be able to tell you the other HA's in the area that might be able to help!

The Granma that is travelling 2 bus trips to help your DN it might be worth trying the granma's borough for HA's they might be better!

expatinscotland · 28/12/2009 17:42

'she is being unhelpful in as much as she wont shift the sleeping arrangements so that the children have a room to sleep in, it would be possible, if she REALLY wanted to.'

she shouldn't have to. it's her house that she is offering them space in and more than likely shouldering a large portion of the cost of having 4 more people in the home. and she probably doesn't want them living there any longer than necessary.

she was under no obligation to do that, either.

if this adult cannot sort out something as basic as contraception and a roof over her and her kids' head then she is not 'coping', for whatever reason, and SS needs to be involved.

curiositykilledhaskittens · 28/12/2009 17:52

expat - but why should ss be involved instead of her own family when her own family are around nearby? Does no-one think it is their responsibility to care for family members that need help anymore? I don't see why ss should help the daughter instead of the mum. I've not said I thought the mum should definitely keep her living there but I really think she should either take her in and help her or help her find her own place and keep an eye on her - maybe call her once a week or have her over for dinner at the weekend. That's what a mum does isn't it? The mum is clearly willing to help out the son who still lives at home at 26 I don't see why she can't at least help the daughter who has had a tough time get sorted out.

BooHooo · 28/12/2009 17:53

exactly. I would be v surprised if they have not picked up on her difficulties tbh.

expatinscotland · 28/12/2009 17:55

'I don't see why ss should help the daughter instead of the mum.'

The woman and her 3 kids under 3 are living in the mother's house.

It's more than likely the mother is absorbing at least some of the cost of this.

If that's not helping, I don't know what is.

If she's 23 and has 3 under 3 then she was at least 19 when she first fell pregnant.

The mother could have tried to help all she wanted but the person would have been considered an adult and if she's that affected by her disabilities then that is the roll of SS - to look after vulnerable adults.

expatinscotland · 28/12/2009 17:56

There's helping and there's enabling.

Goblinchild · 28/12/2009 17:57

I have several friends who have adult sons living at home.
They are good company, pay their way, share responsibilities that arise with living in a house, helpful with stuff in general and are a delight to have around apparently.
so "The mum is clearly willing to help out the son who still lives at home at 26 " may not be as clear-cut as it sounds.

BooHooo · 28/12/2009 17:58

There is only so much support the Mother can give a 23 yo lone parent with 2 babies and a newborn! My Mum is a hands on GM and found it hard to help me with one baby and I am in my own home with DH supporting too. What if (God forbid) the baby is unwell and needs special kind of care or lots of appts at the hospital?

What a huge responsibility children are and they have been conceived without any thought to consequence.

Come on, of course SS/HV should give a hand in this instance.

curiositykilledhaskittens · 28/12/2009 18:03

expat - I totally agree, but I think what she is doing now is enabling rather than helping which is why i think instead just taking her in and then ignoring her she should be doing all the things the OP and the grandma who comes on the bus are doing. She needs to help her learn stand on her own two feet - whether this is paying her way under her roof or helping her find othe accommodation. I think she is much better equipped to help her do this than SS and it is much more her responsibility than SS. If she has tried to get her daughter to learn independence before it has clearly been unsuccessful. I think we actually have similar opinions.

Morloth · 28/12/2009 18:04

I just don't get how the Mum is being unsupportive? I really don't get it. She has take her in, just because the living arrangements don't suit the OP doesn't mean that the Mum is being unhelpful. It must be a royal PITA to have 4 people living in your lounge room, but as you say curiosity that is the sort of thing you do when you are a Mum. The OP also says that the Mum virtually lives in her bedroom. So she has effectively handed over her home to her grown children, what more do we want from her?

My younger brother lives at home and does admittedly drive my Mother up a wall frequently with his antics. But he also pays rent, does his share of the housework buys half the food etc and walks the dogs when Mum's leg is playing up (usually she likes to do it herself). If I was to move in with my kids, I would expect that I would have to make do with whatever space she (and he) could spare and would need to start contributing to the household.

What is the girl doing to assist in her situation?

curiositykilledhaskittens · 28/12/2009 18:09

The OP has said that the niece is taking responsibility for caring for the children and does it well. Sounds like she just needs help to find housing and someone to give her guidance and look in on her now and again. What would SS actually do for her?

GypsyMoth · 28/12/2009 18:11

to be honest,if ss/hv are required to help,then it should be for the mums in b and b and hostels,not someone who has gone back home to mum!!!

these people in hostels and b and b are also council priority. they are the real homeless ones who need the houses/flats,and the security.

there are plenty of mums stuck in scummy hostels and b and b with druggies as neighbours. at least these children are safe and not stepping over used needles to get out the door!!

Morloth · 28/12/2009 18:13

I dunno, but it is entirely possible that the Mum who is working full time (and I assume as it is at a supermarket we are not talking a standard 9-5 day) and currently has 5 other people living with her is out of support and options. Maybe it is good thing that the gran and OP are getting involved?

It just seems a bit unfair that many people have come down on this woman in this thread (including the OP) when she appears to have done quite a bit. Who is doing the grocery shopping? Who is paying the bills? Who is cleaning the house?

Morloth · 28/12/2009 18:14

I don't know much about SS (actually I don't know anything), but wouldn't they be able to help with obtaining appropriate housing?

secretgardin · 28/12/2009 18:20

her mum will need to write a letter saying that she has given her daughter a date that she has to leave as she doesn't have the space. private rent is a lot better than getting stuck in a b&b for an indefinite time

curiositykilledhaskittens · 28/12/2009 18:24

morloth - What a good mum does is teach their child about contraception, does everything to try and get their LD daughter on contraception and out of a negative relationship then takes her in temporarily when it goes wrong while she helps to get them all sorted out with a more permanent living situation. Sounds like the mum just let her in the door and hasn't done anything since which is why the OP is trying to sort some things out. Just taking her in is just letting her carry on how she was going before but in the mum's home this time. That is fairly unsatisfactory for them all.

Morloth · 28/12/2009 18:28

So when does any of the responsibility for the situation belong to the 23yo?

Morloth · 28/12/2009 18:31

Maybe the Mum just isn't up to it and OP and Gran need to be involved.

expatinscotland · 28/12/2009 18:32

'What a good mum does is teach their child about contraception, does everything to try and get their LD daughter on contraception and out of a negative relationship then takes her in temporarily when it goes wrong while she helps to get them all sorted out with a more permanent living situation.'

The OP's niece is an adult. She was when she conceived her first.

The mother could not force her to do anything without court involvement.

This woman is working full time
and now has 3 little kids in her house.

Now she's supposed to find time to get her a permanent home, too?

And like Morloth says, who's doing the shopping, cleaning, food prep, etc.

I think it's bang out of order to slate this mother when she's not even here to give her side of the story and she didn't let her adult daughter wind up in the street!

expatinscotland · 28/12/2009 18:34

'So when does any of the responsibility for the situation belong to the 23yo?'

Exactly! If she's that affected by her condition that she is incapable of this then there needs to be serious questions raised as to whether those children remain in her custody over the long-term.

You can't force an adult to use contraception, either.

curiositykilledhaskittens · 28/12/2009 18:53

Look I have never said the mother should 'get her a permanent home'. I have said I think she should help her daughter to do it. The daughter takes the responsibility but the mother helps since she hasn't had success in the past when she has done it on her own. There are a variety of things she could do such as make suggestions of how to go about sorting things out, find the daughter phone numbers, check every evening that she has been trying to sort something out for herself or make a proper arrangement about the conditions of living at home such as bills/cleaning. Basically teach her to be independent and give her some support to do the things herself. You can't force anybody to do anything but it sounds like the mum has just never really taught the daughter how to live. If the mum isn't up to it then the OP and gran could be involved, yes... Still I can't see where social services should be involved.

expatinscotland · 28/12/2009 18:58

Are you the OP's sister? You seem to have very intimate knowledge of this mother and her life to compile such a thorough list of things she should do.

If I were working full time and had 3 kids under 3 back in my house it'd be all I could do not to have a nervous breakdown.

SS should be involved because the woman is a vulnerable adult with three young children in her care.