Potential fraud?

[DontKnowWhatToDoNext]

I am prepared to be flamed so go ahead but WWYD in my situation?

In brief - DH and I split up last year. 6 months ago, I lost my job due to depression and have since started getting better, have been living on benefits since then with DH paying maintenance for our 3 DCs. I have been desperately trying to get another job but my sickness record at my last job has gone against me. Last month, I was given notice to quit my rented house because the landlord wants to sell - runs out end of Jan.

Over the last few months DH and I have been giving our relationship another go and fell into bed last month (definitely not planned) and I have just found out I'm pregnant which was not supposed to happen . We have discussed it at length and want to get back together (we split up because we have been through a lot of shit over the last few years and blamed each other and basically were hating each other all the time). Time apart has helped sort that out and he has been round almost everyday to see the kids so they have not been that badly affected.

Now I had been to the council (before I found out about the pregnancy) and told them that I am about to be made homeless and they basically said that I would have to find another private rent or they would put me in a B&B.

Now bad as this sounds, I want to try for a council house (even if it means a B&B for a few months as the rents are so high in this area (1000 for a passable 3 bed and now I will need a 4 bed which will be about 1200) so do not intend to get back with DH 'officially' until this happens. DH works but only brings in about 1800 a month and we will never be able to live on his wage in private rented especially as I won't be able to work with a baby and I can't stand the insecurity of having to move all the time (we have moved 3 times in the last 3 years). I am also bankrupt and will not be able to private rent unless I have a guarantor which I don't! Part of the reason for the problems with DH and I were financial as we lost everything (including our own home) when his business went under a few years back. He will also have to go bankrupt soon as his debts have been hanging around and with another child to pay for, he will not be able to pay them.

DH has his own flat and is not actually living with me so AIBU and a total scumbag to try and get a council house as a single parent??

nah - when I was on it last year they changed it that you could keep £10 a week, to being able to keep £20 a week - before it's deducted from your IS............or was that you could earn £20 before it was deducted from your IS

yeah I was told I can earn £20 but maintenance is £5 ... or I'm confused!!

I dunno but at the time I remember saying "well that's not even worth it!"

I know it's £5 a week (no matter how many children you have) if you XP is on benefits that you get

Hmmmm. Proving on paper that your partner maintains a separate household won't count for much when investigators show you the surveillance tapes of him leaving your house every morning to go to work and coming back again at night unfortunately!

oh maybe that's it then Awas...< thick >

I'm confused as to why it makes a difference what her DH is oaying towards the kids/food etc. I understand that affects OPs benefits, but why would that affect her applying for social housing?

Where i am in SE London ANYONE can apply. However, you realistically won't get housed unles you are either a lone parent with children, on a low income or about to be evicted. Having an ex-p who pays money for your children's upkeep doesn't affect your application or what band you are put in. Similarly it made no difference to my application whether I was working and earning a decent wage or not working and on benefits.

Op, once you have been accepted for social housing and move in then if you want your DH to live with you that's perfectly fine. As long as you are not pretending he doesnt or committing benefit fraud you are not doing anything illegal. You are still entitled to that house and will not have to move.

Wicked Wench - why would they have surveilence cameras watching the house? They do this for benefit fraud, not applying for social housing. Once she gets the house she can have whoever she likes to stay however often she wants - as long as she isn't claiming to be living alone and getting benefits. Op hasn't once mentioned she has any intentions of doing that!

yea you is fick like me - we don't have/are working towards "proper" degrees

OP, this has already been said - I am just reiterating. £1800 a month net is more than many people have as income, whether you live in Tunbridge Wells, Aberdeen, Cardiff, or wherever. You can also claim council tax benefit/working tax credit or whatever suits your situation.

If you want a private let rather than council/HA, and are not bothered as to how you achieve this, you can ask a friend to write a reference for you (or even write it yourself). I do not recommend this path; I mention it merely as a possibility if you really don't care about where your next rented accommodation comes from.

As you have entitled your post 'Potential fraud', I am sure you won't worry about any and all suggestions you receive here.

Hope you find the shoe that fits.

ermm Hando - they could do that as she'll be claiming benefits as a single parent.

Should have said I was responding to jacquelinehyde and not the OP

However, OP says she is on benefits at the moment and makes it clear that she can't work or live on her DH's wage. The inference is that she will continue to claim benefits as a single parent until the situation with her DH is sorted.

Ah. I see. Then yes, OP YABU to claim benefits as a single parent rather than declare all money he is paying you.

YANBU to apply for social housing as s ingle parent as it really has no bearing on your spplication and it's nice to have YOUR place to live with your dc if it does all go tits up with DH. If you decide to stay together then you are lucky in that you will have extremely low rent to pay.

Sorry wickedwench what were you responding to?

Actually, I really hope you do get a house. Maybe not a 4 bed, that is unrealistic. I also hope it is on a bad estate, as someone with your mouth, that is all you deserve!

And best we keep you all together & leave the nice houses for those who need them!

My sister was in you position, with only 1 child & preg tho, it has to said. They overstayed their leave date & were evicted by the courts.

They spent a yr + in a horrible room in a hostel. They shared a bathroom, kitchen (incl pots & pans, knives folks etc etc.) Bloody grim! The other residents were alcoholics, drug addicts, abusive people.

Then they got rehoused on a new estate in a new house, 3 bed. It is a shit hole & she is desperate to move, but they got into arrears & their council won't let them.

Reap what you sow!

marantha calm down will you?

The DSS don't have any fixed rules on what constitutes living together as husband and wife (LTAHAW). Each case is taken on its individual merits to establish the individual situation, as a result there is no one clearly defined set of rules and the decision is often a based on a curious mix of time spent at property, financial support, paperwork (joint bank accounts, next of kin as recorded on insurance docs etc) etc.

So whilst, yes, it is an urban myth that if your partner stays 4 nights a week you will automatically be deemed LTAHAW it is one of a number of things that can be taken into consideration (IIRC an investigation can raised on the basis of a car being sighted outside the property on two occassions ), along with the amount of financial support given to the person claiming relative to the "partners" income. As can the fact that the couple are in fact married and that she is carrying his child.

I cannot find an appropriate link for you but FWIW my understanding comes from several years of prosecuting cases for Customs and DSS at the begining of my career: I have seen people who maintain seperate households sucessfully prosecuted for benefit fraud because they are deemed to be LTAMAW. You can choose to dismiss what I say and that is your perogative but unlike you I have no particular axe to grind on this issue.

Oh and Marantha (for the third time) I really would like your comments on whether it is acceptable for me to claim benefits whilst my husband is working abroad next year. We will be maintaining seperate households and will probably spend only a matter of days at the property. I will have no income other than what he provides me with and he will also be paying for the bills/car/school fees.

By your reckoning is it ok for me to claim benefits?

NancyDrewRocks.
I believe that there has to be some proof that you wish to separate. I cannot answer beyond that.
I suspect that in the case of the OP, she and husband are already separated- I cannot see why she would get benefits otherwise.

I tried the link to the official dwp guidelines regarding living together as husband and wife that someone very sensibly posted earlier. Unfortunately, I couldn't get to it. I suggest everybody posting here look at it to eliminate confusion.

The question for me is not OP's morality- I understand that some may find it dubious- it is whether or not she is acting fraudulently and IMO unless/until hubby moves in I don't think that she is. Why is this stance unreasonable? Lawyers (I am not a lawyer) have to separate the moral from the legal everyday.

NancyDrewRocks.
Just popped over to JobcentrePlus website,
it seems that you are deemed to be a couple by their standards if you are LIVING with someone you're married to OR living with someone as if husband and wife (whatever that means).
It does not take much imagination to realise that the phrase "living as husband and wife" is open to interpretation. In fact, the criterion is not JUST "living together" it is "living together as husband and wife".
This is why I find it hard to believe that even the poorest legal representative could not get someone out of a "stayed over a couple of nights" accusation.
I guess this is why two married people who still live together can claim benefits if they can satisfy the dwp that they are no longer living as a couple.
What can I say? The dwp do not (as yet) put CCTV cameras up in people's homes- although I suspect some here would like them to.

Anyway, Nancy... you would have to satisfy the dwp that your separation from your husband was intended to be a permanent one.
The word is intended -people can always change their minds, can't they?

Sorry, Nancy... You asked me if I thought it was acceptable for you to claim benefits if you and your husband separated?
Hmmm... If in your hearts, you and hubby DID intend to separate and not provide for each other financially, then a definite "yes".
If not, then, from a moral viewpoint- I am not so certain.
However, I am not the dwp and it is them (I suspect you're talking hypothetically, anyway)you'd have to satisfy- not me.
As long as THEY were satisfied, that's all that is needed for you to have benefits.

Some MNers here have already supported my view that a couple can be legally married and claim as a single parent.
I know this to be true as I know of women who are legally married but whose husbands have left them and they claim single status.

At the end of the day, it is reasonable that a father spends time with his children so the argument about seeing his car outside mother's home is tantamount to fraud should-IMO- be taken with a pinch of salt.
I imagine that the piss-poorest legal representative could make an argument for why a man spends time round his ex's place if they have children.
If money DOES change hands between the couple, realistically there is no way of knowing this. Is there?

There's been a lot of gut reactions here from people automatically calling OP fraudulent. All I'm trying to do is encourage a bit of debate about the issue as it seems to me the issue is not as cut-and-dried as some think.
Yet I get called a loon for this.

You know what bloody annoys me more than anything in this country today is people just falling into bed and accidentally getting pregnant when birth control is so widely and freely available when they cannot afford another child and then they trot out lines about over crowding!

I bet if you looked at all the cases of true over crowding there are few but many who move into social housing with one or two children and then have more expecting a bigger place.

You have to take responsibility and have a social conscience as there is only so much in the pot and it should be going to people who really need it - as this is what the welfare system was set up for not for people who are stupid enough to fall into bed together and then can't afford to have the child without help.

TBH, from what (little) work I have done in this area I think that, particularly when it comes to teenage girls, the objective of 'falling' (hate that term, like you tripped over something in the street) pg is not so much the 'house' but the 'household'. As their bf probably has no chance of renting/buying the objective is to get somewhere which will enable her to set up happy families with him. Of course, tragically, the chances of the relationship working out as they are surrounded by nappies and a screaming child is close to zero. And then the next bf comes along and it is felt that a new baby might just cement the relationship...and so on...bloody depressing.

That's what I meant in my first post about not being optimistic about the OP's relationship. Because there are strong elements of teenage behaviour in her story (should it actually be true).

I still don't understand why the OP can't get a guarantee from either her parents or DH? I also think the OP is a disgusting individual; I too am livid that my taxes are going to support your fecklessness, and screw you, I've never claimed anything. The system was set up to support people in need - you should see countries were they don't really have any sort of social support, and it is heartbreaking. You lose your job, there's no unemployment benefit, you lose your house, there's no state housing scheme or subsidies. OP, you should count yourself incredibly lucky, get over yourself and stop being such an idiot.

OK, ladies, there is validity in your comments. I can fully understand the view that some view the OP as being immoral, but is it fraud, though?

For once, thesecondcoming you and I agree on something. Merry Christmas.

thesecondcoming - I wouldn't advise the OP to terminate her pg, and indeed I had an unplanned pg (failed MAP) when my marriage was already looking like it was about to break up and we were in dire financial strates.

But I DO think her morals and attitude sucks