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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to wonder why anyone would want to live like this?

358 replies

LetThereBeRock · 15/12/2009 17:29

I know this could be a controversial topic, most likely will be,and each to their own, none of my business etc but I really can't understand it.

A friend is getting married soon.She's a real bibliophile,as is her soon to be dh, and has asked for several books on her wedding list.

However some of the books she has asked for are rather odd,The Surrendered Wife for example, The Politically Incorrect Wife,Liberated Through Submission and similarly titled books.

I've Googled them and the lifestyle they advocate certainly isn't one that I agree with or would care for.

An example from The Surrendered Wife ' surrendered wife always says yes and is always available for sex."'

I thought at first that the wedding list was a bit of a joke, but I've spoken to her since,albeit briefly, and apparently it's not.

So AIBU to wonder why anyone would want to live a submissive life, and AIBU to think that's it rather odd to request such things on one's wedding list?

I

OP posts:
LaurieFairyonthetreeeatscake · 16/12/2009 00:45

It doesn't say that about sex though, it talks about freeing yourself up from arguments so that you both feel intimate enough to have sex.

And it definitely doesn't say that about finances, it talks about divvying up responsibilities to whoever wants to do them and then letting that person get on with it.

There isn't a similar book for controlling men because the title I believe is aimed to be provocative and also I think because it is aimed at unhappy women. It gives quite a few reasons for this unhappiness - unrealistic relationship expectations (all that soul mate crap), 'mothering' partners instead of respecting them as adults, expecting their husbands to fulfill all of their friendship requirements etc (it says take up a hobby, get some girlfriends and have a purpose outside the home)

I agree (obviously) that good relationships are based on compromise and communication. I think the book was talking about actually doing that instead of just trying to control every tiny detail (like how he washes clothes in the machine)

Funnily enough I hated the book at the time cos some arsehole at work gave it to me the day after my ex-husband told me he was leaving me for someone else. The poor bloke probably thought by giving me the book he was doing the right thing - at the time i just thought he was saying it was my fault.

I didn't like all of the book but it had some good stuff in there for women who have been damaged in relationships before.

iloveasylumseekers · 16/12/2009 00:48

There are plenty books out there about controlling men, anger management, how to be a "good husband". Men don't read as many self help books as women though. I would say TSW is more like Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, than it is a weirdo religious anti feminist manifesto. The author identifies herself as a feminist for one thing.

If my husband wants to do something, which I disagree with, I decide whether it's something I care about or not. If it's not important to me, I let him make the decision. If it is important to me, I tell him what I want, then I shut up about it. Much of the time he'll go with my suggestion because he wants me to be happy; sometimes not. But no two people can agree 100% of the time. If I get what I want half of the time that's ok by me.

I didn't relinquish the finances because my husband asked me not to, as he hates it and I enjoy it. He does all of the cooking so I consider it a very fair swap.

Re: sex. I rarely turn it down because I rather enjoy it. It might be more difficult if you don't enjoy it - that's another argument. I have the power of veto as does he but we have an understanding that we rarely use it as it's important to both of us that we put the other first - so unless I or he was ill or properly too tired (rather than jut can't be arsed), we'd always try to make the effort for the person who initiates it. It works for us.

As I say, I am a feminist, who has read the book and found it useful. I don't have problems with self esteem; if anything the buzz I get from a contented huband and a happy marriage mean I'm happier than I was before.

iloveasylumseekers · 16/12/2009 00:57

to add: Yasmin Alibai-Brown wrote an interesting article about TSW in The Independent, which is worth reading if you're curious.

dittany · 16/12/2009 01:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SolidGoldpiginablanket · 16/12/2009 01:13

But Men Are From Mars, etc, is sexist bullshit too! All these books are about women 'managing' men, placating them, basically making the relationship revolve around the man's moods and feelings. The real underlying message often seems to be 'Don't be too feministy ie don't refuse sex or ask in a straightforward fashion for what you want, or make sure the housework is divided fairly, or Men Won't Love you and you will End Up SIngle.'
Guess what? SINGLE IS BETTER.

dittany · 16/12/2009 01:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LaurieFairyonthetreeeatscake · 16/12/2009 01:30

I definitely didn't read anything about finances but I did read it in 2003. The rest of that piece I agree with - if someone says they want to leave their job and travel round the world then I think "whatever you want" is pretty much the best response. If they're that much of a tool that they won't put their family first then you probably shouldn't be with them in the first place.

I have all sorts of bizarre ideas and dh often says this to me as we are both allowed to think stuff out loud with each other.

I'm pretty sure dh read some of this book at some point as I'm sure I've seen him using some of the techniques in it on me

I thought Men are from Mars was a poorly written book.

The book is aimed at people in basically healthy relationships (it advices women to leave violent men and seek counselling for low self esteem) but at people who get into circular arguments and have unhappiness over trying to control how their partner lives.

I promise its not as shit as it sounds. I wouldn't recommend anyone to take it on wholeheartedly or fully as there are some bits I don't agree with - that finance one if its true for example.

I think one of the most common problems I see in my therapy room is unhappy women constantly trying to make the men they are with into something they are not. They have unrealistic expectations about other people and an unnatural sense of disappointment when their partners aren't perfect. It happens with the men i see too - one I saw (and I know you both have heard this before) was turning to being dominated as a way of coping with his highly controlled life (plus a severe coke addiction)

LaurieFairyonthetreeeatscake · 16/12/2009 01:33

Yes the book is aimed at women who are in relationships with men and who have taken on running a home/children/life. In this way its very anti-stepford as it says stop doing so much housework, stop setting up unrealistic expectations for yourself (get a hobby instead).

It is not a society changing book - its a cacky self-help book aimed at overly controlling unhappy women.

dittany · 16/12/2009 01:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 16/12/2009 03:57

I still don't know what modern feminism actually wants.

seeker · 16/12/2009 06:10

If this book is all about empowering women, as some of you say, (and I have read it and profoundly disagree), why is it called "The Surrendered Wife"?

NancyDrewRocks · 16/12/2009 08:00

oldladyknowsnothing Nor me!

I always find threads on feminism interesting, perhaps because it is an area where I really do feel bewildered because I just don't know where I stand.

I have no idea what feminism is about now (or indeed if I'm honest, in the past).

I suppose I feel that the fact I am female has never held me back and I'm not sure it holds many woman of my generation back in the UK, hell I don't even have a problem with pink toys in the ELC - I'm sure this makes me a traitor to a "cause" that should concern me and so as a result I stay away from these debates.

BUT I would really like someone to explain it all to me....please!

claw3 · 16/12/2009 08:10

Husband 'Would you like to play roleplay rape'

Wife 'no'

Husband 'thats the spirit'

NancyDrewRocks · 16/12/2009 08:16

Oh sh!t I just sniggered at Claw.

There is no hope for me.....

MrsRigby · 16/12/2009 08:26

happyneverafter I just think men are men and women are women. Like someone else said we are 'wired differently'.

I guess I just have a very old fashioned view on womans and mans role. Suprising considering the age I am (29).

I also have an absolute hatred for feminists (I'm going to have a load of posters throw the book at me now).

I think it helps in a relationship if one partner is submissive.

Of course this is just my opinion and I probably haven't explained myself all that well.

I don't want to be equal to a man . I'm happy playing the little woman who knows her place - looking after the children and the home and always making sure DH has a cooked meal waiting for him.

OrmIrian · 16/12/2009 08:28

Really mrsr?

Goodness.

I don't know what to say.

claw3 · 16/12/2009 08:31

I look after the children and the home and cook dinner, but i still regard myself as equal to my man. What is unequal about that Mrs R?

LaurieFairyonthetreeeatscake · 16/12/2009 08:36

at Mrs R

I'm not really sure that's the way to go unless your husband is so marvellous that he will never take advantage of your submissiveness.

MrsRigby · 16/12/2009 08:36

I know, I know ormirian I've set the feminist movement back into the dark ages

claw3 nothing if your DH/DP also looks after the children, home and cooks dinner and you go to work like he does (I'm assuming he goes to work).

I can see why most women would like to be equal to a man, but I don't want to be.

LaurieFairyonthetreeeatscake · 16/12/2009 08:37

and 'hating feminists' makes you a bit thick as without feminists like the Pankhursts we wouldn't have got the vote.

Do you get your husband to vote for you?

let me guess......you don't bother voting

LaurieFairyonthetreeeatscake · 16/12/2009 08:38

It's not about equality - its about accepting and promoting difference.

claw3 · 16/12/2009 08:41

So you both have to work to be equal?

Looking after the children, home etc, isnt work?

MrsRigby · 16/12/2009 08:45

Oh dear the attacks have started already .

lauriefairyonthetreeeatscake it's just my opinion and what I want. I'm not saying you or anyone else has to act submissively.

And I'm not thick - how dare you be so offensive. I happen to be in the top 2 of MENSA - highly intelligent.

Yes, I'm aware that the woman who threw herself under the horses and starved herself eventually gave women the right to vote, but maybe things would have gone that way anyway without her doing that. Can you or anyone else see all future outcomes?

No I do vote - conservative. Always have always will.

Do you want to have a go at me for that aswell. Don't just hold back and call me stupid either.

MrsRigby · 16/12/2009 08:48

claw3 in my opinion to be equal, he needs to do what you do and you do what he does.

Again before people start having a go at me it's just my opinion.

claw3 · 16/12/2009 08:54

Mrs R, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion as far as im concerned. I agree no need to be rude, just because i dont agree with you.

For me to do what he does and vice versa, surely there would not be enough hours in the day?

Its about give and take, and a partnership is what makes you equal?

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