To object to prayers and hymns at school?

[Maitri]

DD (5) goes to a non-denominational school. The reason we chose the school is because it is not a church school despite having some very loose links with a local church. We're very happy for the school to celebrate Easter, Christmas and Harvest with the children as we are in a predominantly Christian society. DS used to go to the same school and I was really happy that in addition to Christmas etc, the children would make little divali lamps and would learn about other faiths' celebrations (we live in a very culturally un-diverse area). In recent months, the school's links with the church seem to have strengthened as the vicar puts in an appearance every week and DD comes home with a new prayer or a new hymn every couple of days. She's constantly talking about Jesus and "how sad it was that he had to die for us"(!). We balance it with the old line of "Well, some people believe that Jesus was a real person and some people believe that he wasn't...". There has been no mention whatsoever of other faiths.

I wanted other MNers' views on this as I'm considering talking to the headteacher about her views. What do you think?

I dont actually know why this matters. The kids learn about what people believe. That is what this whole discussion is about. People believe that Jesus existed whether there is primary evidence, secondary evidence or no evidence.

melted, you're partly right - it is important to understand what other people believe, but its also very important to understand what (if any) basis there is for that belief.

Hello PD (or can we call you Phil? ) - ITA with the purpose of RE. However, this thread started with primary school assemblies... would be interested to know what you think about that!

"I dont actually know why this matters. The kids learn about what people believe. That is what this whole discussion is about. People believe that Jesus existed whether there is primary evidence, secondary evidence or no evidence."

Actually - and this is why I whinged about us getting off-topic - that is precisely NOT what this topic is about.

While I would rather there was no religious aspect to state education, RE lessons themselves, if taught by the sort of teachers on here, is fair enough if we have to have it.

This thread - and the objections arising - are about biaised religious education "by the back door" OUTSIDE RE lessons.

Appropriately enough, I think that was a cross post

PD'For a, presumably, specialist qualified RE teacher such as ?scaryteacher? to so glibly trot out a blatant fabrication such as ?no historical? doubt is concerning, when even the most cursory internet search will show otherwise is rather worrying.'

Mmmm. Rather glad I don't work for you then, if you go around calling fellow professionals liars and misquoting what they actually posted.
I said that Josephus and Tacitus was enough evidence for me to believe that Jesus existed. I did not say there was no historical doubt.

There's onle one way to settle this...

TEACHER FIGHT!

No, far too undignified for someone my age.

I'm VERY slightly younger than you Scary, I'm up for it.

I went to a catholic school and my mum is Hindu and my dad Christian. I enjoyed all the things we participated in at school. However, DD's nursery cancelled halloween due to parent pressure. It's a non religious nursery!! I am open to all faiths, even though I don't go to church, surely it would have been more sensible to go ahead with it, and those that didn't want to participate not spoil the fun for others.

Oh and also, the nursery had a fireworks display, but surely that is against Catholic faith - hyprocrites.

Sorry to not go with the flow, but just wanted to add that reading a similar thread a while ago prompted me to join the secular society. Just thought I would give it a mention.

You're more his pay grade Iggi!!

My mum tells me I'm mid 40s, but as I am still 43, I am clinging to early 40s until January, then I'll be mid 40s for 3 years, then we'll see. I might become ageless and inscrutable like the sphinx thereafter, as well as omniscient and omnipotent as far as ds is concerned anyway!

If you are omniscient and omnipotent you'll have that whole problem of evil stuff to contend with Scary, I wouldn't bother! Didn't mean to post about my job, but I thought the previous poster had sounded pompous and here to put us silly wee people right about a few things.

Well my dd is in y8 and has an RE lesson every week, which to both myself and dh is excessive.

She has cooked a total of twice and made 1 sewing item. Without appearing like a stepford wife I would much prefer her to be alternating Re with other lessons for example cooking.

She is way above the level she should be in RE, thanks I feel to her upbringing and her primary Cof E school which made no bones about the fact that it was a very Christian school with extensive links to the church and local community.

However I really feel that there should be some kind of streaming introduced within her particular school (non denomination)like there is in literacy and numeracy for example. ie if you are "behind" in Re then you should attend lessons every week. If however you are above the "expected" level then you should be free to alternate with other subjects which I feel would be of more benefit.
Sorry for highjack of post.

Finally when I was at uni one of my lecturers stated his political stance claiming that all teachers/lectuters teach from their own political view point. Whilst this may seem impractical at primary level it is infact true for all non-scientific subjects.
Everyone has their own take on the subject and this is where the real problem lies.

Just read Wobblys post.

Yes my very Catholic friend (her words) has just celebrated both Haloween and Bonfire night complete with a burning Guy Fawkes.
I pointed out that she will not go to heaven now for her double sin

Love the idea of being better than you should be at RE! Is your DC cross between Bono/Mother Theresa/Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama? Unless you are a perfect human being you have something to learn about your opinions and those of other people. I'm quite sure the school timetable has a period for HE (or FCT or some similar name) which encompasses cooking and sewing. Never heard of a place where RE got a bigger share of the timetable than other subjects, unfortunately! I can see that your DD might know a lot about Christianity, but how has her CofE school helped her know more about the 5 K's of Sikhism, or the life of Gandhi, or how Eid is celebrated? If she's bored in RE, then the teacher should be extending her, not letting her drop out IMO.

Iggie I know how my post sounds but at her school they are graded at every subject, including PE, which surprised me tbh.

Yes she is knowledgeable about many religions her teacher enthused about her knowledge at parents evening saying that my dd spoke to the whole class about various religions.
What I am trying to say is that I (and dd for that matter) would prefer her not to do RE every single week but they do. I am not sure if this is standard across the whole country or not. Rather than extending her knowledge of Re personally I would prefer her to do other lessons for example cookery.
Btw she has said that she is an athiest and does not believe in any religion at all!

Unless there are individualised timetables I think you will also have set times for each subject - so a budding Delia will still be doing cooking, and a Dawkins biology. I don't think a lesson a week is excessive. It's the bare minimum really. Hopefully children can use it as an opportunity to express their own views and ideas. I would make a case that RE is probably the most useful and relevant subject you can do! You're clearly a parent who is committed to supporting your DD's education, so I would look at how she can get the most out of every subject - they won't alter the timetable for her, I'm afraid.

MITM - I'd have liked to be teaching a double a week for RE, not just an hour; I always felt RE got short changed on an hour a week, especially if you want the students to research and debate. It is hard enough getting through the syllabus on 1 hour per week.

Your dd doesn't have to have a religious belief to be good at RE at all. Some of the best discussions on abortion I've had have been with non-believers.

As for not wanting to do it, I didn't want to do maths every week, but there was no escape sadly. One of the lessons about life she will learn in school, is that you have to try equally hard when you don't like something.