to think people should offer some help to a person travelling alone with three children?

[emkana]

I finally lost it when I tried to get off the bus at the longstay car park, trying to stop ds from running off, trying to unfold the pushchair, poor dd (6), bless her, trying to lift out the suitcase for me - and a bus full of people was just sat there, watching us. So I said to dd, but really to people in general "would you believe it that people will just sit and watch a six year old trying to lift a suitcase" to which some w*er replied "well it's not my responsibility is it"

ffs

Emkana, I really hope you ignore all the arses on here. I have previously been told on Mumsnet that I was being "selfish" to other passengers in taking my 3 children alone on a long haul flight to see my dying brother and separately, that if I can't figure out how to take a baby to a loo safely when eating out with my 3 kids, then I shouldn't go out alone with them.

Anyone with a modicum of decency would of course have helped you with your luggage. Your sarky comment may not have been well-advised but as someone who frequently has to travel on her own with 3 children, it was entirely understandable given how difficult and stressful it is.

I was in the Tate Modern recently and witnessed hordes of healthy looking adults shoving me with a pushchair and much worse, a man in a wheelchair out of the way to get in the lifts, leaving no room for us. There are big signs up saying to give priority to disabled and pushchairs so one can assume this is a common occurance .

After 3 lifts had gone I rammed my way to the front and shoved my pushchair wheels in the door to stop it shutting and asked who was going to get out to make way for the wheelchair. They all looked at the floor but noone moved so I said I would get out the way so he could have my space (he then wouldn't let me, I think he didn't want a scene). They still didn't look embarrassed. I couldn't believe people that day.

I can understand that someone might not want to offer help if they are shy, but then if someone is shy, they might not want to ask for help either.

I think we should expect to be helped in times of need, and I don't think we are just responsible for ourselves, I think we are also responsible for creating the society we live in. I want that society to be one where we look out for each other, and offer help without the need to be asked.

I think you should both EXPECT and be ENTITLED to help if you are struggling whatever the problem is, the fact we don't help each other without a second thought is a damning indictment of human nature...

I am sorry you had a bad day OP, someone should have helped you. But I agree with this:

"BUT I plan ahead when I travel, I will go without stuff that would be very handy so I only have one bag, I arrange people to meet me if needs be, I don't go places where I think it would be difficult to cope e.g. I haven't been on a bus route I don't know and I haven't been on the tube which means I have missed out on doing things I wanted to. At the end of the day you are repsponsible for you."

you might agree with that post but I just think that's plain sad.

You should have picked on someone and askedf them for help. I do this.

"You look nice, could you possibly hold this child's hand a second so he doesn't pancake onto the road?"

they always always do.

TBH if you'd sarc'd at me instead of asking nicely I'd have flipped you the bird and left you to it. You don't get people to do what you want by making them feel like shit, you do it by making them feel like God.

kat2907 - it is exactly people like you who discourage offers of help.

When a council can ban adults for going into a playground with their own children the world has flipped. Unfortunately some of the same attitude is apparent on mumsnet with deep suspicion of anyone approaching a child.

The sheer ingratitude of many people when given help is annoying. I also tend to say something like "a thank you wouldn't hurt", or sometimes I just say thank you to the person who's gone through the door without a word .

Exactly, be nice and gracious and people will help alot.

Look like you're ready to launch into someone who doesn't help, or even make a sarcastic comment to those who don't and the world looks different. A helluva lot meaner.

YABU. It would be nice for someone to help, and usually there is a kind person around to help, but they don't have to.

"Becoming a mother is not a disability. Mothers are in a similar predicament to someone on a work trip who has lots of work related samples to bring back, or heavy equipment. I would offer to help anyone with lots of belongings to get off a bus, regardless of the presence of children. But they are not 'entitled' to help in a way that a person with disabilities is." Milly, after reading your posts on this thread, I hesitate to highlight any part of what you have said, lest I appear to give it the dignity it does not deserve, but did you ever see a box of work samples go running off into a busy road by itself?

Splitting hairs by making hard and fast distinctions among disabled and able bodied people is completely silly when the issue is whether a mother or father travelling alone with small children (not boxes or merchandise) needs help somewhere along the way and whether people who are in the vicinity should offer it.

I feel your pain emkana.

It only happened to me once - getting off bus with my three and dd2 (3) decided to run for it. I didn't know which way to turn - shopping, buggy, dd3 in my arms, dd1 trying to help. I just made some wailing noises and ran after dd2 with buggy on one arm and dd3 in the other. Luckily someone caught dd2 before she crossed the main road. When I looked back the driver had unloaded my shopping onto the pavement next to dd1 and made the comment 'I DO have a schedule to keep you know'. I felt so miserable. Dd2 was put on reins after that. Is that an option?

Let me get this right?

It's NOT GOOD MANNERS to be sarcastic about people being utter shits?

Thought so?

OP YANBU. I'm fucking sick of this shit. What is wrong with you people who think it's not okay to be pissed off when someone doesn't offer to help? Do you need your heads examining? This is NOT OKAY.

As I read it, the sarky comment came when she was pretty much off the bus so I'm not quite sure how relevant it was as to whether people were going to help or not. Personally I would put a woman travelling on her own with small children and luggage as being entitled to expect help. It's just not something you can manage on your own. I just don't understand how people can sit and watch anyone struggle like that and the same applies to the elderly and the disabled.

I also can't believe that anyone travelling in these circumstances would have taken any more luggage than was absolutely necessary.

I agree though that on the whole, I am amazed by people's kindness in helping in situations like this and Emkana was clearly unlucky (or possibly unlucky in that she was ona bus full of Mumsnet members!)

Emkana - I salute you for not going postal. This thread was depressing me beyond belief but most of the posts in the latter part have reignited my faith in human nature.

But, why do we have to ask for help? What is wrong with people that they can't offer?

Smallwhitecat, don't see you too often which is a shame as you're obviously a voice of sanity here. You also stuck up for me when i was getting pasted a while back for a similar thing (have name changed since..am passive aggressive and cowardly )

This thread is rather astonishing. Now I know why some childless people refer to parents as breeders and have so much hostility to them (us). The sense of entitlement is astonishing.

Yes they should have helped. Yes it was shocking that they didn't. Yes I would have helped you if I was there OP (and I think a big percentage of people would). But I would never, never expect it. I am happy and thankful if a stranger helps me out. It's like a nice gift to me that I am grateful for.

The amount of luggage and how much of it was actually necessary is immaterial -- Emkana has two arms. She has mentioned a pushchair, a suitcase, and two small and mobile children. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realise that more arms would have made a difference, even without the suitcase.

I am surprised no-one has yet suggested that SN children should be confined to their homes and not allowed to travel.

I am entitled to help if I need it.

I am entitled to sit on my big fat arse and watch you struggle if I so wish.

Which of these statements has more merit? Entitlement? Think on. It's not about entitlement it's about how a lot of people just can't/won't/aren't remotely decent these days. Pah!

I think it's horrendous that no one helped - poor OP. People are vile, sometimes.

When I was about 6 months pregnant (with twins, so looked ready to drop) DH and I went to the theatre in Stratford. I was pushed around more by the middle aged theatregoers than I ever was at work in a fairly bottom-end secondary school. I was outraged. It was horrible.

Recently, I was shopping with my DTs (3.4) in our local shopping centre. One got on the escalator with me, one pulled her hand away and stood staring as DT2 and I went up. I had no idea what to do. Luckily a woman took her hand and followed us up. Unluckily, she was unpleasant about it - tutted at me as I thanked her, and walked away muttering.

I get loads of help, even in London, I don't expect it.

I offer to help women with young children and prams as much as I notice it, which is quite often. As I seem to notice it more now I am a mother.

What I can't be bothered doing is getting all into a ranty rage or spending an ounce of frustration on people who don't do anything. Many people are just zoned out and in their own world.