to think people should offer some help to a person travelling alone with three children?

[emkana]

I finally lost it when I tried to get off the bus at the longstay car park, trying to stop ds from running off, trying to unfold the pushchair, poor dd (6), bless her, trying to lift out the suitcase for me - and a bus full of people was just sat there, watching us. So I said to dd, but really to people in general "would you believe it that people will just sit and watch a six year old trying to lift a suitcase" to which some w*er replied "well it's not my responsibility is it"

ffs

swedes yes we were at the longstay car park but people had nothing to do at that point other than to sit there or to help, because I was the only person getting off at that particular stop.

I find it so bizarre that there are MNers who take as a message from this thread not that people should be more helpful but that a mother should have less children/children further apart/shouldn't travel alone with her children. What a warped way of looking at things

I truly can't believe the pasting you have had here emkana. I was even thinking about this thread in bed last night

The people who imply you shouldn't have taken your children away on your own if you couldn't cope, or who imply you are not able to cope with your children generally must have had the reason scooped out of their brains along with any compassion and empathy!

Of course emkana couldn't cope with a son running off and the quick removal of 2 other children and a suitcase from a bus! Who could? Only Mr Tickle with his very long arms perhaps. But that does not mean that she is generally unable to cope or even that her decision to travel alone with 3 children was unwise. It was only a moment's difficulty fgs, not a general breakdown of all parenting skills.

And of course someone should have offered to help, if not emkana with her invisible SN son, then at least her 6 yo dd with a suitcase. I think society has taken all leave of its senses that we even have to debate this issue.

Not read the whole thread but I am more shocked about some of the replies on here than the fact that no-one helped you (also annoying). Takes a community to raise a child, as they say, and what people should remember is that we were all children once, will all get old (probably) and thus infirm and some of us may even get a health problems which will require assistance. I'm lucky to live in an area where people are always helpful an will either hold the children or help me with my bags on public transport.

emkana, I feel your pain.

YANBU.

No fucker helps anyone anymore!!! Common decency and good manners have long since gone out of the window.

Can you see I travel regularly alone with my dcs - also to Germany. It's the bloody business men who seem to feel they're much too important to notice anyone struggling [bitter and twisted emoticon]

OMG just read the whole thread!

Emkana - Perhaps they were half asleep and didn't really connect that they could have helped. I'm not sure long-stay car park and airport terminal behaviour is very typical. People are in general if not stressed, certainly preoccupied.

Em - Do you find people generally helpful in the UK? I have 4 children and have always found people to be really helpful.

Emkana, I hope the twat passenger who told you it wasn't his responsibility to help you never needs help in future! The same goes for those other useless prats on the bus and some posters on this thread.

But people do help people all the time. I get help all the time, and offer it to people with and without children. While I do live in the supposedly friendlier world of 'up North', I have also found people to be friendly and helpful down South including London.

As a society, we are much better now at offering support to vulnerable people. Airports offer all kinds of extra help to elderly people and people with disabilities. There are still improvements, but things are better than they were.

I find the constant remarks on this thread that a mother with children is somehow entitled to the same amount of consideration as (or in a similar predicament to) an elderly or disabled person to be utterly repulsive.

Becoming a mother is not a disability. Mothers are in a similar predicament to someone on a work trip who has lots of work related samples to bring back, or heavy equipment. I would offer to help anyone with lots of belongings to get off a bus, regardless of the presence of children. But they are not 'entitled' to help in a way that a person with disabilities is.

Some of the responses on this thread just smack of a 1950's 'I'm the little woman; I can't manage' school of thought. If you cannot manage, make arrangements with the airport in advance; that's what families like mine have to do because one of us actually is disabled.

I don't think that expecting people to lend a hand to others has anything to do with "I'm a little woman, I can't manage" actually. Often it's not that you can't do the stuff yourself, but that it could be done faster/easier if someone spares a few seconds to give a hand.

I also don't think that people are entitled to help, but isn't it rather sad if it just comes down to what we are entitled to in life? If I see someone struggling with something, I'm likely to offer a hand because that's what you do. It is nice to help others and it makes everyone's life more pleasant.

I must admit be being a grumpy old bag though and if I've e.g. held doors open for others with no thanks or stepped out of the way for others with no thanks I do tend to make comments along the lines of "a thank you wouldn't hurt now would it".

Its not about helping people because they are old/a mum/ have special needs etc, it is about doing the right thing, and helping someone who is struggling, whether they are fit and healthy young man or an old frail lady. Everyone struggles sometimes.

Being elderly is not a disability either.

Maybe we should only offer assistance to those who can produce a letter from the govt saying that they are entitled to it.

FFS. I left this last night and have come back and still people are saying these awful things, now saying that emkana should have had less children, or given that she has some children, she should not go out with them unless she is 100% confident that she will be totally in control at all times.

How many people can say that about anything? Things happen, situations change, suddenly things don't happen the way you planned. Should people help? Well of course not, it's your own stupid fault.

This thread is so upsetting.

People with anxiety issues - should they be allowed to leave the house? They could have a panic attack, they know they could have a panic attack, they therefore shouldn't venture out.

Pregnant women - should they be alloed to travel by tube or train the the rush hour? They may well not get a seat, and they're not actually ill, so naturally cannot expact anyone to let them sit. Pregnant women who find it difficult to stand for long periods, should not travel on public transport at rush hour.

And on and on and on.

I am appaalled by this thread, and the other one yesterday.

Get the suitcase off first then get the kids off.
i am very surprised no one helped a small child with a suitcase but i would never be so rude as to be sarcastic to folk for NOT helping

Plus all the people saying "well it's not their responsibility" - have you never heard of "social responsibility", otherwise known as "doing the right thing"?

Without anyone taking any social responsibility, which is the way we are going by the look of it, our society will be miserable and dangerous to live in.

And, do people really not offer to help anyone any more because sometimes that help is refused? So a couple of times when people have offered to help me, but I have been OK and politely said no thank you, they have gone off thinking "well I'm not bloody offering anyone again after that"? Thing is, offering to help other people is about them, not about you.

Oh dear - I think its very sad that people didn't help you but have generally found airport buses bring out the worst in people.

I generally find people helpful - have 1 school age child and a nearly 2 year old and 3 month old. But there's always the exception.

A 50'ish year old woman pushed in front of me and dc's the other day to get in lift we were waiting for and then asked me to press the button for her floor in a very imperious way. Must say I just stood there like this wondering if she perhaps thought that we were all staff.

Agree with others next time just take your time and ignore the other travellers.

I am sure if the op had asked for help someone would have stepped up .I think its wrong to not ask for help and then blame them for not helping.

I don't think anyone thinks that it's alright to sit and mind your own business when someone is clearly struggling. What people are saying is that no one should ever expect that random people are going to help you. It's a sad fact of life.

This is not a particularly edifying thread is it? I want to cry SHAME. In fact, I will cry SHAME.

SHAME

There.

Emkana, your experience is fairly typical of our society today, I am sorry to say. My worst experience of bus drivers was one who closed the door on me when I was lowering the pushchair to the paveme thus throwing me off the step to the ground as the doors swung into me from behind - leaving dd (2.4 on the bus) because the driver didn't give a shit and nor did anyone else.

Let me quote Mrs T "there is no such thing as society". Well, there isn't now, and that's her true legacy.

I think its funny that emkana was expected to ask for help.

I've read many threads on here of people complaining about DH's only doing chores/childcare stuff when asked. The general consensus is that 'dh's' shouldn't need to be asked to do washing up etc as its obvious if there's a sink full of dishes.

Isn't it the same here - people should have looked at emkana and her children and thought she may have needed some help.

I like to help people if I can when out and about - it helps them but also it makes me feel better.

Im very shy and if someone asked me to help and i could i would BUT i would never offer just because im shy. If you need help ask.

Plus the people might of had a reason not to help bad back, unable to lift heavy objects etc. MY brother once helped with a buggy and ended up trapping his hand and ending up in A&E the women he helped DIDNT go to A&E with him she just left him!

I didn't sat she should have to ask for help , I said that you can't rant at people for not helping if you haven't asked them.

Are you serious tracey? Expecting your dh to help out within his own family unit is quite different to expecting society as a whole to help you when you're struggling.

Oh Jux that is terrible.

I once got thrown to the ground on a bus (pregnant) as he accelerated hard and swung out of the bay immediately I showed him my pass and there was nothing to hold onto. They are supposed to wait until people are seated, especially if they are pregnant, old etc.

I was once on another bus and he was speeding merrily over speed bumps, and an old lady fell from the floor onto the ground and wasn't moving. Everyone was shouting for him to stop or slow down. Did he? Did he fuck.

There is something about public transport which seems to bring out the absolute worst in a lot of people.

Depressing thread. I always offer / accept help in such situations. Small acts of kindness make this world a far more pleasant place to live in.

Poor you Emkana! I imagine your sarcastic remark was because of the stress and frustration that you felt.
Why are some people suggesting she shouldn't go out unless she can control her children or whatever? That's really unfair and so judgmental.

People DO help other people, I am offered help all the time on public transport by all kinds of people, and if none is forth coming and I could do with a hand, I ask nicely. I have been surprised by how nice most people are since having kids. No one has ever said no, although some have looked a bit put out. I work on the basis that they didn't notice I needed help until I said.

BUT I plan ahead when I travel, I will go without stuff that would be very handy so I only have one bag, I arrange people to meet me if needs be, I don't go places where I think it would be difficult to cope e.g. I haven't been on a bus route I don't know and I haven't been on the tube which means I have missed out on doing things I wanted to. At the end of the day you are repsponsible for you.