and disloyal to womankind to NOT find this offensive?

[Astrid28]

I am now a SAHM. DH runs his own company and it got to the point where I could give up work if I wanted to. I wanted to, so here I am.

DH transfers money for the food shopping into my account and I also use the joint account for other things, like birthday presents, DD's lessons/pre-school clothes shopping etc.

A friend of mine has described me on several occasions as being an old fashioned housewife.

I laughed and said I suppose I am! She then went on to say that I shouldn't be pleased with the situation. Don't I find my life boring, and what about my life when my kids grow up and leave home - what then?

I'm still very happy with my situation, but should I be?? Am I 'letting the side' down?

By Quattrofangs Wed 28-Oct-09 19:25:23

I'm glad that I'm not the only one missing Xenia.

I don't know why people imagine that children don't bond with working parents properly. It sounds like insecurity or an attempt at affirmation to me. My children love me and are enormously close to me. Closer to me than anyone else. I am sort of sad at approaching teenagerdom and the prospect of them getting a bit more closed. But right now, it's been the same as its always been. We're very close.

I love this post and agree with every word.

But bonding isn't everything. Children can be closely bonded with their parents and miss their presence terribly.

Come back xenia!

Are you not able to spout the same materialistic, self-centred trash that Xenia did, violethill? Good on you - but please admit it, rather than asking Xenia to do it because it is unpalatable to you...

(Has Xenia gone altogether?)

I think she pops in now and then stillstanding.

Anna - what is your problem dear?

(No, don't bother answering please )

i have probably been 'every type of parent' working ft single parent/working part time single parent/not working single parent while studying/working full time in a partnership and working part time in a relationship and now not working in a relationship- if my job had not been made redundant then i would have been back at work full time by the time my dd2 was 5months old with no qualms.
Financially we are screwed! no savings,i've no pension,dp earns a pittance (i was the breadwinner)
I can't say i've thoroughly enjoyed every second of the past couple of years and I certainly don't feel that i have a better bond or that i love dd2 any more than i did dd1 (in fact i think the reason i love dd1 so much is because i didn't have to potty train/toddler tame her!)however I don't regret it (being at home) and plan to use this time to retrain in something else that i might enjoy when i've finished having my 'second'family as it was.
I guess what i am trying to say is that whatever gets you through the early years and is good for you is what you should do.
I think the financial dependence element is a red herring tbh and seems like you are justifying working when you need not.
I have control of the family money despite the fact i earn none of it.my contributions are supporting the whole family-by being available as pa/head chef/laundry lady and chief arse wiper and the one who picks up all the slack for everyone-don't know how long this is likely to go on for but whatever happens it's not something i expect to be discussed or scrutinized by anyone outside our family-and by that i mean me,dp and our kids.

No problem at all, other than being unable to swallow the "women deserve to do anything they feel like" line that gets such an airing on MN. Probably because there are just too many women here representing the female viewpoint. I wish a few more children were able to express their views on here.

YANBU - i am SOOOOO jealous of you right now OP!!! i would absolutely love to be in your position so that i could be a SAHM for my two children who seem to actually need me more as they are growing up (10&5) your friend sounds rude. ignore her....

if i could i would be a SAHM and breed my BSH cats for 'spending' money....

I don't think we need children to express their views on here. After all, you've carried out your high quality research based on the children you observe at your dd's primary school and from that you have proved the universal truth that all primary age children always prefer to have their mother or father waiting at the school gate for them and to spend the remainder of their day at, or in close proximity to their home:

'By SorciereAnna Thu 29-Oct-09 08:54:45
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Small primary-aged children would always prefer their mother or father to be waiting at the school gate at going home time, and to spend the rest of the day with their parent(s) based in and around their own home. There is absolutely no question about this - I observe hundreds of children at DD's school each week and have ample examples of children's reactions to parents vs. other carers.'

I mean, why do any of us need to bother making our own decisions, in discussion with our partners and children? The great Anna has spoken - what more do we need?

violethill, I don't think there's any need for this. I too felt that this discussion wasn't really taking into account the childrens' needs. It can work both ways by the way - my dd1 loves nursery and I would feel bad if I had to take her out, so she still goes and has fun with her friends there although I am currently on maternity leave. On the other hand, I AM planning to become a SAHM when she starts school for the exact reason that I want to be there waiting for her at the school gate.

But everyone does what they need to do so these discussions are futile really.

These threads always go the same way.

SAHMs think that the WOHMs think that they are parasites living off their husbands.

WOHMs think that the SAHMs think that they are selfish mothers whose children are being institutionalised by childcare.

There are generally splinter group rows between subsections of posters.

The arguments get even more circular and convoluted.

The thread then implodes.

At least Xenia made us laugh.

I am in entire agreement that families should make their own decisions based on their circumstances, honest discussion, and taking into account the needs of everyone in the family unit feierabend. Your example of keeping your dd in nursery, because you know, being her mother, that she thrives on it and loves it, even though you are on ML, is a good example of that. You might be able to save yourself a bit of money, but you are making the right decision, at the moment, for your dd.

We have 3 children, and at every stage, DH and I have sought to make the best decisions regarding their upbringing. And as they are now teenagers, happy, well adjusted, and having good relationships with us both, I like to think we're doing ok!

And we will continue to make our decisions as a family, not on the basis of one posters 'research'(!) at going home time at her daughter's primary school!! I would expect every other right minded person to do the same.

You can still make the decision for both parents to work FT in the full knowledge that your children would prefer one of their parents to be at the school gate every afternoon. What bothers me is not that parents have to take decisions where sacrifices are involved for family members (because all family decisions involve sacrifices) but that so-called intelligent adults deny that any sacrifices are being made and tell us a la Xenia that they have found the perfect family working model and that we should all emulate it.

'You can still make the decision for both parents to work FT in the full knowledge that your children would prefer one of their parents to be at the school gate every afternoon.'

• yes, of course it would be entirely possible for one to make that decision. But no one on here has actually said they have! What people have said, fairly consistently, is that within the constraints that surround each family, they make the best decisions for their own family.

And then you came along and told us all about your wonderful piece of school gate research which apparently proves a universal truth about ALL primary age children.

Bullshit.

Actually it is only a (relatively) recent cultural thing for children to be looked after exclusively by one or other parent with no-one else being an adequate subsitute. In many other cultures the extended family takes care of the babies/young children e.g. grandmothers, meaning that both young, fit parents are able to go out and provide for the community (in a way that e.g. the grandmothers can't).

Anna I got the impression that most posters were saying the opposite that there is no one arrangement that suits all family.

I have to say in agreement with you that my own dd was very miserable when she was having to go to breakfast and after school club. She was being bundled into a car half asleep at 7 in the morning, getting dressed at her grandmas and then being dropped at breakfast club at 8. She was then in after school club until half five in the evening. Sometimes I would stay at work until the caretakes kicked me out so dd and dp would have tea on their own. DD would go to bed late as I wanted to see her when she got in, but both of is were tired and grumpy.

This went on for 2 years, both dp and I felt guilty and knackered, this resulted in us swinging from spoling dd to snapping at her. We were on the verge of splitting up as we were all so unhappy. I also had a meltdown caused by the stress of it all. DD was very hard work, I kept losing letters from her school and we were struggling. We sat down as a family and made huge life changes.

We moved and dp now works school hours from home so he can do the dropping off and picking up. He goes into school for events and if dd is ill we are not stressing over who is at home. It also means he is able to support me in my career, the house tends to be very tidy when I get home, he deals with all the household admin and any letters from dd school. I make an effort once a week to get home from work earlier so I can see her doing her horseriding or any other activity. I have also given up a management role at work and am just a classroom teacher. In the school holidays dp may work a few extra hours to boost his salary or he may spend time with us. I am very strict now and do very little work in the holidays and never work while dd is awake or in the house. She spends time with me and also time doing organised activities as she enjoys them. I use that time when she is out of the house to do things with dp or on my own. She is at art club today so I am about to go into the nearest town to have lunch on my own and browse bookshops.

As with any change the first year again was hard and we moved to a more expensive area and have taken, what to us, is a substantial cut in our income. Once again in our first year there were times when I thought we are not going to make it, I thought about walking out and I am sure dp did too. If we get really broke as we did last year dp takes on more hours. I did some cleaning work on top of my teaching last year when we thought we were going to lose everything but now things are settled.

For us now we have the perfect arrangement although in a few years time it may need looking at again once we throw a baby into the equation. The one "huge" sacrifice we have made is that we sold our house and paid off every single penny of debt and we are now having to replace that money so we can buy again. We will own a property again but it may take a few years. For now we rent a lovely house which we are able to treat as our own, so I am not overly stressed about it.

I fully recognise though that not everyone can just up sticks and move, take a demotion, announce to their employer that they wish to work part time or from home.

Sorry that was really long.

MORgue - your post sums up exactly, and very thoughtfully, why each family needs to decide these issues for themselves.

And it also makes it plain that in real life, these decisions are not always easy, there are so many constraints and variables, and people and circumstances change so that what is best one year may not be the next. It's about nurturing our children and listening and responding (and same too with partners) so that at any one time you are living life the best way you can.

I agree that most people on this thread have expressed the same view.

It's a shame some people think that they can carry out their own little piece of 'research' and conclude from it that they know what every primary school age child thinks and wants!! Laughable!

Thanks voilethill.

Anna, what really bothers you are mothers who work FT and don't feel guilty about it. I am just grateful I don't have to stand outside the school gates next to someone like you busy making observations!

No, what bothers me are neglected children. I know plenty of FT working mothers whose DHs also work FT whose children are not remotely neglected; but sadly also know many neglected children who see very little of their parents.

ABatDead Mon 11:49

"Men still do not have this option and in this age of equality I do feel women ought to step up to the plate and not on the one hand drift back to 1959 when it suits them and yet still demand the freedoms and equality of 2009."

I think you are out of touch - there are certainly men who can happily give up work, perhaps because of an early retirement age in their chosen career, and whether their partner chooses to continue work is really up to them (as their work colleagues are an important part of them feeling mentally fit, just to have a variety of views on life, politics, etc, for example) .

Can see where you are coming from regarding suggestions of the "1959" aspect, only if a partner was forced not to work, but when anyone is given an option and "not working" is possible, I for one would see nothing wrong with that option being taken.

"Small primary-aged children would always prefer their mother or father to be waiting at the school gates"

Actually I think my DS would prefer my Mum or my brother to be waiting for him (and if he's waiting for a father to pick him up - he'll be waiting a long time!).

I hope my DS would prefer me (or my mum or brother), I'm his mum.

But I htink to convinve yourself that its an enormous problem for children to be picked up by a child minder or to go to afterschool clubs is exaggerating. If my DS was distressed by it I'm sure I would try to find a way to solve it.

It's not that I don;t acknowledge it can be a problme, its just that I dispute that its inevitably a problem.

Ana, I don't feel that working or not working comes into it with neglect of children. We see from all the posts here that lots of women who work are clearly very dedicated to their children and families. We also see plenty of posts from SAHP's who are also clearly dedicated to their families. But there are also plenty of children out there where neither parent works and who are sadly still neglected. Some people are just terrible parents regardless of whether they work or not.