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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

and disloyal to womankind to NOT find this offensive?

798 replies

Astrid28 · 26/10/2009 11:26

I am now a SAHM. DH runs his own company and it got to the point where I could give up work if I wanted to. I wanted to, so here I am.

DH transfers money for the food shopping into my account and I also use the joint account for other things, like birthday presents, DD's lessons/pre-school clothes shopping etc.

A friend of mine has described me on several occasions as being an old fashioned housewife.

I laughed and said I suppose I am! She then went on to say that I shouldn't be pleased with the situation. Don't I find my life boring, and what about my life when my kids grow up and leave home - what then?

I'm still very happy with my situation, but should I be?? Am I 'letting the side' down?

OP posts:
violethill · 28/10/2009 08:00

Muon - if you want to stay home, fine, but don't kid yourself that parents who work are not the people their children are closest to!
Having a healthy positive relationship with your children, and being close to them is to do with loving, caring, respecting them, nurturing them, listening - a million and one things, but not whether you happen to go to work too!

You argument is full of holes anyway - if you really believe that the only way you can be close to your children is by staying home with them, then presumably you think your DH won't be close to yours, as he's still having to go out to work! Or does he have some special exemption from your spurious argument?!

Your view about children disrespecting their parents being 'because they've been raised by someone else' is laughable. Did you not realise that working parents do raise their own children?

My own children are teenagers now, and I've always worked, part time when they were small and full time since the youngest started school. So I guess you assume my children are delinquents? Erm, no actually, happy, bright, sociable and well adjusted.

I expect that riles people like you doesn't it? I expect you'd prefer there to be a measurable outcome showing that if you give up work, your children are going to be brighter, happier, more successful? Well, there won't be! So, stay home if it suits you, and is what you want, but try not to be so resentful and envious of parents who have equally well adjusted children/young people and a career too.

mumzy · 28/10/2009 08:41

when I was single w/o dc work was the no 1 priority in my life. After the birth of my 1st I took 18months off and went back to 3 days a week with my pil and a great nursery providing childcare for which I am very grateful for. After my 2nd I went back to work after 8 months for 1 day a week. Now that they are both at school I work 3 days a week doing school hours. I now view working as having extra money and keeping up my skills in case our circumstances ever change and I have to be them main breadwinner. I take on jobs which fit round the dc rather than on how interesting they are. My dc are now the no 1 priority of my life and I want to the main influence in their lives. Never be ashamed of being a SAHM having tried both roles I think sometimes we think the grass is always greener on the other side.

violethill · 28/10/2009 08:53

mumzy - your post is very reasonable and I'm glad things have worked out well for you, but we really need to dispel the myth that if you work, your children are not your number one priority, or that you aren't the main influence as the parents.

Parents are the most influential factor in their children's lives. Of course other factors have a role - extended family, friends, school etc, but parents are the number one influence. And every parent I know, working or not working, has their children as their first priority.

It's not that hard to understand that fact!

MissM · 28/10/2009 09:27

I don't think mumzy's implying that violethill. I interpreted her post as saying that work used to be her life, and now she still works but it's not her life. Which is kind of similiar to me as well. I was lucky enough to be able to take a year's maternity leave with both my kids and now I work three days a week. The DCs are absolutely my number 1 priority - in fact, I don't know any woman who works for whom they are not - but I continue to work because I enjoy it and am stimulated by it, as I enjoy and am stimulated by my kids. I would give up work in a heartbeat though if I ever thought that my children were losing out as a result of me being there.

As others have said, I think it's a real shame that there has to be any kind of pre-conceptions about one another from SAHMs and WOHMs. Why is there this need to judge? X has made her choice, Y has made hers. Neither choice are harming anyone, both choices are right for them, so why do others get so worked up about it?

ssd · 28/10/2009 09:49

that was a very bitter post violethill

violethill · 28/10/2009 10:05

I don't feel at all bitter about my children being my number one priority ssd. What a strange view. But each to their own.

Kewcumber · 28/10/2009 10:17

I don;t think it was bitter I think it was a knee jerl reaction to the same-old, same-old "dumping your child with strangers" type comments which do wear pretty thin after a while.

I think it is possible that you miss out on some things when you work and raise a child but some of it can be compensated for and I don't think in the vast majority of cases children are in any doubt who is their parent. My mother worked virtually all my life but stayed at home when my borther and didter were littel. I can't say I am disadvantafed or have any kind of different relationship with her to them.

There may be a tiny majority of parents who handover responsibility of their childrne to live in staff but there aren't any in my circle of friends. My frineds are a mixture of SAHM, WOHM, WFH (work from home), full trime and part time and you'd be hard pressed to guess form the children which is which.

You don't need to validate your choices by being rude about anyone elses. My childminder is not a "stranger" she has cared for DS since he was one and it will be an emotional day for all of us when he starts school and we no longer need her. She knows him better than my sister does who lives 5 minutes away.

Just for the record:

Who heard his first word - no idea I can't remember
Who potty trained him - me
Who takes him to the doctor - me (or my mum)
Who does he run to when he's hurt - me
Who goes to his school concerts/sports days - me.

On the basis that if you aren;t with your childrne 24/7 - do you stop raising them when they go to school then?

GetOrfMoiLand · 28/10/2009 10:18

I miss Xenia. Quattro's post above from Supermother just made me laugh.

I think financial independence is incredibly important. Also the stimulation you get from an interesting job that you love.

I fully support women staying at home with their children when they are young - however I do not understand how you can stay at home when they are back at school. No matter how many walnuts are in the trees.

bb99 · 28/10/2009 10:33

Couldn't read all 500 posts, but IMVHO, YA soooo NBU to have your lifestyle.

It is the lifestyle I worked towards for over 10 years with my DH and have finally achieved it in the last 2 years

Your friend sounds VERY jealous, and a bit narrow minded. I thought womens liberation was all about allowing and enabling women to make CHOICES, not forcing them to conform to ANY stereotype, like a working mother or a SAHM.

I am so much happier now that I don't HAVE to do everything work and I can be a SAHM. I know it's not for everyone and that not everyone is financially lucky enough to get to make the choice and I would never at any woman or mans's choice as far as balancing work and parenting goes.

We should ALL stop trying to justify our owns lives/choices by moaning about others' choices and tutt tutting them.

If u want to work, work.

If you want to SAH, SAH.

Use the fact that our grannies DID fight hard so we could have wonderful, wonderful choices.

Ironically I now do do some work and earn as much money doing the odd freelance bit of work which TOTALLY fits around what I want to do, as I did doing a full-time crushingly stressful job, when all the childcare was taken into account.

Up the CHOICES revolution!!!!

anniemac · 28/10/2009 10:34

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anniemac · 28/10/2009 10:41

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sabire · 28/10/2009 10:42

Muon, I've been at home with my children pretty much most of the time as they've grown up. They're 4, 6 and 10 now and pretty rude, unfortunately (they have other strong points - they're confident, compassionate and intensely loving, just not at all compliant). I don't think children respect parents any more or less according to how much time they spend with them. If anything I would imagine that children who are less securely bonded with their parents would be more compliant, as they're more likely to be seeking approval.

That said, our children ADORE us (children in a generic sense) and would probably rather be with us than anyone else, particularly when they're tiny, where instinct apart from anything else encourages them to try to stay as close to us as possible. I know nurseries vary in quality, but I don't think that any nursery could have given my very small children the quality of life that they've had at home with me. I did have my dd in two nurseries part time as a baby, and as they've got older all three of them have attended nursery p/t at a children's centre.

My babies had a wonderful time at home. I took them to the park every day, and out to the shops and library, I kissed and cuddled them all day, sang to them, they saw their grandparents during the week as well as during the weekend, we went to the odd playgroup so they had a chance to play along side other children (not that babies play much with other children anyway), we listened to interesting music, we picked blackberries, and we just CHATTED, all day long. No nursery could provide that sort of consistently rich experience for my kids - even the very good ones. The child/adult ratios just don't allow it. And as soon as my kids were old enough to express a POV they were clear that they preferred to be with me most of the time to being at nursery (I sent them part-time from 3 onwards). Don't get me wrong - they enjoyed nursery once they were old enough to establish meaningful relationships with the other children, and to make good use of the equipment and expertise of the staff, but they always preferred being with me if they able to express a preference.

I think any adult who seriously believes that a baby would prefer to be in the care of a nursery nurse than their mother or father, particularly when they're doing a
10 hour day away from home, is kidding themselves. I don't think it necessarily affects the bond with the parent - the bond is too strong for that - but it's a bit of a crap experience for a very tiny child to be away from their mum and dad for the vast bulk of their waking hours during the week, just seeing them for an hour or two in the evening before bed, and for an hour or so in the mornings. Time passes so fast for us - a day goes in the blink of an eye. But for a baby time moves very slowly.

"however I do not understand how you can stay at home when they are back at school"

Getorfmyland - I only have 5 and a half hours a day between drop off and pick up, now all three of my children are at school. Other than working in a school myself, what full-time job would fit in with those hours, and give time off for school holidays, or when my children are ill? After school club for three children costs £9 an hour. And that's out of a TAXED income. Also - my kids want to come home after school, so they can relax. They're knackered and a bit overwhelmed at the end of the day, particularly my 4 year old. The last they they want is to have to mill around in a big hall with loads of other kids until I pick them up, even if there are games and computers for them there.

I think I get plenty of stimulation from my part-time evening work, my studies and my voluntary work. No need for full-time work really, not for myself!

Builde · 28/10/2009 10:43

I think that some mothers are better off at work. Our happiest family life was when my mum worked; during those periods her self-esteem was highest and she was less depressive.

She stopped working at 50 and has been very down since. I wish she still worked; meeting with her is very upsetting. It seems that she has too much time on her hands to reflect on life.

violethill · 28/10/2009 10:44

Thank you kewcumber - I don't understand what was bitter about my post either! All the parents I know make their children their first priority, and I have also yet to meet a child who doesn't know who his/her parents are! Parents and home remain the biggest influential factor in children's lives.

If you want to stay at home, then fine, but don't use spurious arguments to support it. It doesn't mean that you are prioritising your children more highly than a parent who works. It doesn't mean that you are 'raising your children and working parents aren't'. It doesn't mean that your children will be cleverer, more successful, more respectful to you or closer to you! There are a number of posts here from women who have been at home fulltime with one child, and working with another, or have been parented by a mother who was at home full time for periods and working for periods. And they are testifying to the fact that it makes no difference. I worked part time when my chidren were small, but the weighting of work days varied at different points - and guess what? There is no difference in the outcomes for my children.

I don't claim that being a working parent makes my children any 'better' - the advantages of working are that it provides intellectual stimulation for me, its putting into practice the education and skills I spent a long time gaining, plus a nice salary, plus (very important) a pension.

I don, however, think GetorfmyLand makes a good point - I think it's very strange when you see women whose children are all in school filling their days with lunches, tennis or golf (or nutting!) but I think in RL these women are few and far between - and they are usually bored with it too. To me, endless lunching and gym visits are the middle class equivalent of sitting playing computer games all day. Fairly vacuous and not what I want my daughters to aspire to.

violethill · 28/10/2009 10:46

sorry - I do think GetOrf makes a good point

stuffitllllama · 28/10/2009 10:46

why do you care?

MissM · 28/10/2009 10:47

It's funny you should say that anniemac because I was thinking about this thread last night (it's made me think a lot, a bit like those owls in Owl Babies. Anyway, I digress). One of my thoughts was how people on mumsnet really don't listen! You can read really thoughtful and intelligently-written words (whether you agree with them or not), and then someone below responds in a way that shows that they haven't listened to a thing (if reading words on a forum can be said to be listening). I think you have summed up the whole problem beautifully.

bb99 · 28/10/2009 10:48

Gosh, as a previously working mum, I agree that you can be just as close and just as good a parent when you are working, as when you are at home FT.

It's not working/not working IYSWIM that makes a good parent, it's just NOT that simple.

But it's those picky stereotype things that are used to make people feel bad. Working mums are selfish and don't care about their children, SAHMs are lazy, old fashioned and unmotivated...

There are some fab SAHMs and some fab WOHMs, just as there are some not so great SAHMs and WOHMs. It's not the working/not working that makes a good parent.

BrokkenHarted · 28/10/2009 10:49

This is silly.

If you want to go back to work great, if not then thats brilliant too.

Me and DH will have one of us here with DS til he is in school. We want to but are living with a lot less money as a consequence. Thats fine for us.

Lets not be silly about it. Some children can get closer to their nannys but most will not. That is up to the parents. The kids that do usually do because their parents are NEVER around. A nursery worker though? Kids are only with them for half the day. It is ridiculous to say they will be closer to the kids than the parents. If that is the case surely you are really doing someting wrong.

stuffitllllama · 28/10/2009 10:49

"You don't understand"

no, quite right, you can't -- so therefore you don't judge I hope?

"I can't understand how people with a scared four and one month old who's just started school don't want to be there for them at the end of the school day"

sounds awful doesn't it?

and yet, it's none of my business, I don't care, I'm sure you've got your reasons and I'm sure they are good ones

stop judging people or people will judge you

violethill · 28/10/2009 10:51

stuffit - if that question is directed at me, then the answer is - I don't particularly care how someone spends their days as long as someone else is supporting them financially to lunch/go nutting etc. I was saying that a life spent lunching and going to the gym is not something I particularly want my children to aspire to, any more than I'd want them to spend a big chunk of their adult life playing computer games or watching daytime tv. That's just a fact. I just think there's a bit of a class issue here - somehow it seems more acceptable for a woman to spend her days lunching or in the gym rather than watching Jeremy Kyle, whereas actually I think they are equally vacuous.

*disclaimer: I am not suggesting that this is how most women spend their time.

stuffitllllama · 28/10/2009 10:52

flip -- i worked all through their babyhood and stopped when the eldest started school so that I could be there at the school gate

do I have to explain myself? no
do you have to understand me? no

violet and getorf, i have gone off this phrase but as it's a special occasion -- any chance you could get over yourselves?

violethill · 28/10/2009 10:55

Thats a tad rude stuffit.

If you really don't care about other people's opinions, try not to be rude about other people.

stuffitllllama · 28/10/2009 10:57

You agreed with Getorf's comment that she couldn't understand how mothers could stay at home when their children were at school.

Sheesh. And they are vacuous if they don't ..what? They are vacuous if they enjoy themselves in their chosen way?

Honestly.

stuffitllllama · 28/10/2009 10:59

I have been rude, and that's not normal for me, but you are being judgmental when there's no call to be, and you are pretending that you're not.

It's not me you're talking about: I'm defending women that aren't me. I'm doing it because I loathe this judgmental attitude.

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