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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that people claiming that BNP voters aren't racists are being disingenuous?

838 replies

MrJustAbout · 23/10/2009 00:04

I don't get the argument "that these people aren't racist, but they vote just BNP".

For me, If you vote BNP, you are a racist. I know this is guilt by association but I think it's fair. What's more, making excuses for those who choose to support these hatemongers makes it more acceptable for them to do so.

I know I wouldn't vote for a party when I didn't know their policies and if I did, I'd feel pretty ashamed that I voted without bothering to find out. To be honest, anyone who votes for the BNP and claims that didn't realise they'd just cosied up to facists needs to give up voting for good.

OP posts:
scarletlilybug · 27/10/2009 14:12

Ladylush - the proportion of the non-voting population supporting the BNP could be less than 6% - but, equally, it could be more.

Personally, I blame New Labour. That's where most of the BNP support is coming from - the working classes who have felt disenfranchised ever since Tony Blair decided to go after the middle class vote, with the arrogant assumption that the working classes would always vote Labour because they would have nowhere alse to go.

"Simply lecturing people on why they voted for the wrong people, or worse hectoring them with abuse ("racist!") will only make them more disenfranchised and harder to bring back towards the mainstream. This does not mean you embrace the extremists, indeed you can demolish their phoney arguments with calm analysis and reason." (Adapted this from the Guardian letters page - what I have been trying to get at, but better expressed).

daftpunk · 27/10/2009 14:14

LL;

what do you think of people who come and live in this country but still support the Taliban.?

up to you what you think of the Taliban, but i don't think they'll ever be Cbeebies presenters....

ladylush · 27/10/2009 14:32

What is your point DP?

daftpunk · 27/10/2009 15:01

sorry LL...got caught up on a green day thread...

....i reckon there's a percentage of people living in this country who support the taliban..a terrorist organistion opposed to western culture....

they may well be immigrants living here under this lying cheating governments immigration laws...

it's a very complicated subject LL...

GrimmaTheNome · 27/10/2009 16:09

A tiny percentage of the actually not very large percentage of immigrants who are Muslim. Taleban supporters are bad news wherever they live. Here, there is maybe a better chance that they will see the error of their ways. Of course this is less likely if their perception of Britishness is the BNP and the like.

Extremism breeds counter extremism. (and arguing about who started it is irrelevant to solving the problem so no point going there.)

electra · 27/10/2009 16:43

As I understand it, less than half of all people actually vote anyway - so voter apathy probably isn't helping and did something to help the BNP gain some kind of foothold.

The fact terrorist organisations exist is not a reasonable argument to put forward as to why we should not have a multicultural society, is it? There are all kinds of terrorist organisations in every country. Remember the IRA?

electra · 27/10/2009 16:44

Agree, Grimma

GColdtimer · 27/10/2009 17:03

DP, can't you see what a banal and ridiculous question that is? Of course people living here who support terrorist organisations are bad news. However, the vast majority of muslims reject any kind of extremism (as you would know if you'd ever tried to engage with them). What about the people who come to live here and do not support terrorist organisations and contribute positively to the state and to society in general. What do you think of them?

Your background is Irish Catholic - does that mean you support the IRA? Should the government have refused your family entry when they came to live here on the basis of your nationality and religion?

daftpunk · 27/10/2009 17:10

this will just go around in cirles again so,... very last post from me on this..

the BNP will be constantly in the news in the run up to the next general election...nothing anyone can do about that....i think it's important people are allowed to express views and opinions and we get away from the "freedom of speech is ok as long as i agree with it" brigade....that is not healthy...

quite a few posters have told me they will no longer talk to me, and don't want anymore to do with me....i think that shows a lack of maturity and ignorance on their part, as the only way anything gets resolved is though talking and understanding...

i would never stop talking to anyone.....it's a shame it doesn't work both ways....

GColdtimer · 27/10/2009 17:20

Thanks for answering my questions DP

GrimmaTheNome · 27/10/2009 17:24

Most of us believe in free speech. More than happy for DP and anyone else to carry on talking.

I suspect that some posters may have given up talking because they realise its a waste of time if they aren't actually listened to.

Lizzylou · 27/10/2009 17:35

DP I have never said that at all, I cannot pretend to understand or like your views but do admire the way that you stand your ground.

There is a difference between standing your ground and obstinately refusing to understand other people's viewpoints though, DP.

bodycolder · 27/10/2009 17:38

The BNP if they got a foot in the door and could implement their policies would be no better than terrorists as they want to live their way regardless of what it takes and who it hurts.They want to destroy the multi cultural society in this country just as the taliban want to and all in the name of 'patriotism'

electra · 27/10/2009 18:37

quite, bodycolder

ladylush · 27/10/2009 18:45

DP - Taliban supporters living in this country does not endorse the existence of the BNP. That post does now however make it very clear why you are considering voting for them. I think your reasoning is very skewed and narrow-sighted.

bodycolder · 27/10/2009 19:47

I am surprised that a BNP supporter would risk posting on a forum where everyone is equal yet faceless.Colour ethnicity race sexual orientation etc all invisible here but by the law of averages all probably represented! It is shocking that with the internet and 24 hr news coverage etc people can still be so misinformed and ignorant.hey ho thats life I suppose

pointyhat · 27/10/2009 20:05

Beware of the calm and reasonable face of prejudice. The face of prejudice that will look forlorn and claim victimisation if anyone strongly disagrees with their unpleasant unfair views.

It is all about playing a role with no substance.

bodycolder · 27/10/2009 20:27

Pointy that is inspired.Could have wrapped this up ages ago and no mistake Thanks

monkeysmama · 27/10/2009 20:51

I am really pleased to read that'll be your last post daftpunk. Hopefully you've understood rancid racists aren't welcome with most of us on MN. I've never seen a poster be nastier & offend more people. Good riddance.

TheShriekingHarpy · 29/10/2009 11:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

electra · 29/10/2009 16:16

I think Warsi was suggesting people vote for the BNP without fully understanding what they represent. 'Informed' voters, yes are racist. I have no idea how anyone can argue that BNP policies are not racist when you see video footage of NG stating his ambition for the majority of British people having the attitude 'every one of them must go'

And as for suggesting the labour government have similar policies to the BNP because of the war in Iraq, well that's a ridiculous argument. And as we have already discussed, a conservative government would have supported that too. The BNP are just jumping on band wagons that get them ill thought out support and divert attention from what they are really about.

BecauseImWorthIt · 29/10/2009 16:27

Daftpunk - I am astounded that you really believe that the BNP is not racist. You are not a stupid woman. How can you possibly believe this?

Here is an excerpt from their own website:

"We will abolish the ?positive discrimination? schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of ?asylum seekers?, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries"

Says it all really. Anyone who isn't white is lesser than those of us who are.

Doublebuggy · 29/10/2009 17:58

Sorry - havn't read this thread.

Just thought I would throw in an anecdote from my ILs

The bloke who has been mending their shoes for years and years revealed that he had voted BNP.

MIL has a German accent - she came to the UK at 16 in 1939. All her family were murdered.

FIL also has Eastern European accent and lost all his family except mother and sister.

But it strikes me that shoemending bloke must just be very stupid. He did not seem to connect voting BNP and fascism. And it did not seem to occur to him that admitting to voting BNP would upset the two elderly people whose shoes he mends.

They regularly pass him in the street near their local shops and he always pleasently says hello. But surprise surprise - my ILs now get their shoes mended elsewhere.

daftpunk · 29/10/2009 18:21

BIWI....

only replying to you because you have asked me a question....

the BNP are a legal political party, anyone has a right to vote for them.....whatever you may think of the BNP someone in an office must have looked at all their policies and decided they wern't breaking any laws...hence they are legal.....do you really think we can find out stuff about them that they couldn't...?

it is completely wrong to harass people who vote for them.....

BecauseImWorthIt · 29/10/2009 18:24

Harrassing anyone is wrong. And I hope you're not suggesting that I am harrassing you.

But pointing out that they are racist is different.

They may be legal in terms of the way the party is constituted. But that doesn't stop them being racist. The quote I c+p demonstrates that very clearly.

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