to consider reporting friend to SS?

[sillysalley]

I have a friend who's approach to parenting is just ... well ... worrying really.

Her and her husband have a crazy fascination with keeping the house like a show home and nothing else seems to be of importance other than that. I cant emphasise how much of a fascination it is, not just that they have a tidy house but things like
no baby gates allowed
children not allowed toys anywhere other than their bedroom
children not allowed to sit on the expensive leather sofa if they are wearing clothes with buckles and belts etc

Well i visited recently and their 2 year old is still not speaking (not even a single word, he makes very little noise)

Then she told me something that really worried me. Her 2 year old was really ill recently and she had to send for an ambulance because he could hardly breathe. She said
'I could hear him in his cot struggling to breathe, i was so panicked because it took me ages to get to him, trying to untie all the rope around his door handle to get into his room'

I presume the rope is to stop him going out of his bedroom in the night, as they wont have baby gates becuase they damage the walls.

Then she went on to say the hospital wanted her 2yo to stay in for the night but she refused and took him home.

I cant believe that HV or the hospital have not picked up on this, but I am truly worried. The thing is she isnt the kind of person you could approach about the issue. So all I can think of is an anonymous referal the SS.

Would that be unreasonable?

Don't worry ChunkyMonkeysMum...I have just reported you myself that's how we do it round here on MN

MP, who said anything about battering doors down? Lots of people have mentioned coming out at night but no-one mentioned battering anything - now you are over-dramitising! I would guess an OCD mother would be capable of weighing up a bit of rope across the landing with, possibly, the contents of the fridge all over the kitchen floor when the child night wanders and so on.

Wannabe, you did, I can't be bothered right now to go back and find it all, I noticed it last night, I may have time later.

ABitBatty- You may want to call them back & tell them that my occasional OCD has caused Ds1's Autism too. Thanks.

What actually is the NSPCC's role/purpose ?

It's all just so hysterical these days, my 9 year old regularly threatens me with childline, I wonder how many well meaning phone calls these agencies get a day from curtain twitchers and spoilt brats.

Broke dd1 told me she was going to phone childline after I made her do her spellings and wouldn't let her watch tv until she did them properly as opposed to whining that tney were too hard. She is 5!!!

of course delayed speech does not equal bad parenting.

But a child not speaking at two is unusual.

I can understand not wanting to go down the route of intervention because that potentially means admitting there is something wrong with your child. But early intervention is crucial, surely it's better to seek help and find out there's nothing wrong rather than not seek help and by the time you realize there is something wrong discover it's too late for intervention to help.

Two is early, but there should surely come a point when a parent has a responsibility to seek intervention for their child? Or is that a parent's right as well? Even if they decide never to do so?

I rang and said some random woman on an internet forum says her husband has a friend whose wife and he are obsessed with cleaning their house and apparently tie up the handle of their DC's door at night so he can't get out. Then another woman joined in and said she only does this occasionally in between surfing the net on her iphone I also know that her DS is autistic and I think it's the sporadic nature of her cleanliness levels that may have caused this. You have to be consistent with these things! I don't want to just ask her more about it so I will report her to Social Services instead.

CMM if that's aimed at me I am well aware my kids autism is gentically passed on through me, so far from seeing it as insult see it as simply The Way It Is. Genetics is not the same as blame, much as it took me a while to get my head around that.

And dh's depression and dyslexia mixes in there as well apparenlty, andwith ds3's possible add or dyspraxia dx.

C'est la vie .

But if peoplewant to rip the piss I would be better off sorting lasundry I guess. Feels like a form of agree with me or piss off playground bullying

Haven't read whole thread, but agree SS suggestion totally over the top.

Adn the suggestion wannabe that a child not speaking at 2 is unusual is a bit daft too - it's quite common for kids not to be saying owt at 2 - speech therapists IIR don't intervene till they're 2.5 or 3. And according to the Times a fifth of 4 or 5 year olds can't talk properly when they start school - obviously that's another thread!

' But early intervention is crucial, surely it's better to seek help and find out there's nothing wrong rather than not seek help and by the time you realize there is something wrong discover it's too late for intervention to help.

Two is early, but there should surely come a point when a parent has a responsibility to seek intervention for their child? Or is that a parent's right as well? Even if they decide never to do so? '

hear bloody hear

LOcking any person in a room is wrong. just because they are a child doesn`T make it more acceptable, it makes it less acceptable. Who knows what the effects of this could be on a sensitive child: anxiety, panich attacks, claustrophobia?

However, perhaps in this case I wouldnt class it as abuse because the woman talked about it as though it was normal. She wasnT tried to hide anything. So to me se sounds more ignorant than abusive, but its hard to speculate. I think the rope, plus the extreme tidiness is noteworthy.

I think you should ask her about it and then judge your next step by her reaction. If she sees youve got a point and tells you she read it in a book, but she will re-consider it now that youve brought it up, then I dont think you have to do anything. If she reacts strangely, then Id think more about it and if you feel alerting SS is what is best, then I think you should.

ttchy a slt assessment can pick up signs that could lead to intervention or not at 18 months using tests such as chat.

It would be true that most kids do noot need intervention; its worth thecheck in case yours is the one that does.

nope dm I have read through my posts and at no point have I said the child was tied up in his bedroom. All my references have been to rope tied to the door.

I took my DS1 to see my GP when he was 2 because he was not speaking. The GP actually said this was quite usual, in boys especially and told me to come back in 6 months if he still wasn't talking.

So many people said to me at the time "oh don't worry, so and so didn't speak until they were 3", so I think it's actually more common than some of you seem to think.

With regards to early intervention, yes it is vital, but no one can tell the parent they must get help for their child, they have to make that decision for themselves.

I would have been heartbroken if someone had taken it upon themselves to involve SS or my HV anonymously rather than come directly to me with their concerns. That's the ultimate betrayal!!

Did you not jst ask her why she had tied the door shut with rope? And wouldn't that look messy in their house anyway?

I think calling SS is a bit OTT. MY DS didn't talk a word till after his second birthday, not even to babble.

my DS1 did not speak at 2, he walked at 10 months but his speech developed very late.

Not due to bad parenting though!

The rope bit sounds weird, but does not warrant involving SS.

If she really is a friend, just tell her you think that bit is weird.

Keeping a show home is not a crime. Yet.

WannaBe I would expect a child to be refferred if the parnet had any issues, but we don't know that this woman hasn't already done so.

Dd2 was reffered by a HV who thought it wad uneccessary but was erring on the side of better safe than sorry as she was leaving and it would be a while before we got another HV, so she didn't want it missing if there was something wrong. That was over 3 months ago and we still haven't heard anything back from them.

I was never worried as she understood everything that was said to her and could follow simple instructions, and dress herself , she just didn't want to talk.

I goty pretty sick of people insinuating that there maybe something wrong with her and asking me 'Well do you talk to her much?'

"by the time you realize there is something wrong discover it's too late for intervention to help."

What crap it's never too late, more difficult yes but not too late.
Unless children are to be brought up in compounds with state authorized carers making decisions then parents have the right to make decisions and mistakes.
I really think when we have kids in the world dying because the mothers cannot walk to the clinics, we need to get some persective on a quiet 2 year old, fuck i'd have loved a quiet 2 year old at times.

"the extreme tidiness is noteworthy" - what the hell! Why?! We know nothing about this, wether she is tidy all the time or sporadically or only when visitors are coming. I reckon this woman knew that this judgey-woman-likely-to-report-people-to-ss was coming round and thought 'oh shit I'd better tidy up!'
When was being tidy a crime?!

When our DD was quite ill with Bronchiolitis, the doctor on duty advised us to take her home even though she should normally have stayed in hospital, because he felt the risk of her catching additional infections in hospital (which would make her much worse) were far greater than the risks of releasing her into our care.

By the age of 2 my DD could escape from/over anything - we took down all the stair gates after she climbed over the one at the top of the stairs (by pulling all her clothes from the drawer and making a pile on one side, enabling her to clamber over). She was (is) very much a night owl and is perfectly capable of taking herself off downstairs in the dark. If I wasn't a light sleeper the options when she was younger would have been a lock or a rope tie of some kind. And you know what, I might just have gone for the tie, because both my DCs get reassurance from the hallway light and neither of them can stand having their doors shut. Fortunately I am lucky enough to wake up at the sound of a pin dropping. That is the only reason I never needed to do anything.

So, if anyone wants to call social services out on me for intent, just cat me and I'll send you my address.

And by the way, the 2004 edition of Toddler Taming does indeed recommend using a rope to tie the bedroom door - it devotes a whole page to arguing why it is less terrifying for a child than a locked door. So from reading the OP I reckon I would have an issue with the mother in that she tied it in such a way that it couldn't be opened in a heartbeat, instead of looping it, but I guess she's probably learnt now (and expect that was point of her original conversation with OP). God help us if all our parentign mistakes got reported to SS.

Bad aprenting and asd not linked so separatedebatesentirely; I know about asd more than the other (I hope)

CM- there's a big drive within the asd woprld top try and avpid what you experienced, HV's used to adminiter a test called CHAT to try and pick up signs as part of the check at 18mo, hoewever manya reas ditched that so now rely on self referral which should be taked seriously but often isn't. As a clue to why,myu Uni tutr gave a talk on ASD to a class of long-qualified GP's and asked 'what is autis'; oneraised his handand asked 'is it to do with theear'.

fgs

Best outcomesare linked to early dx but thereare barrier against that: teachers in many training units only get 3 hours sn training, covering all sn, andapparently some medical training colleges ditch it when time is pressing (based on lecture I attended). But when a child is picked up they can get portage, SN funding at nursery, sensory input..... so whilst I can't force anyone to get help,I do beleive in making clear the benefits of early checks. Because I think it is important.

The same lecturer says he spent all his career fighting against the 'wait and see' attitude as he feelsit is harmful at times, I quite agree with him.

Wannabe, you are quite right, I clearly read your posts in an emotive fashion (if that makes sense). You did imply that a rope is similar/the same as a padlock which it clearly is not but you did not say what I thought. Sorry!

Bobbing - It wasn't aimed specifically at you, I just think it's a ridiculous statement to say you feel there is a link between OCD and ASD's. My DS1 is Autistic but just because I like my house to look clean and tidy when people come round doesn't mean I have any form of OCD or that if I had, that is linked to his Autism. I know people who live in shit and still have a child with ASD!!
It was certainly not meant as any kind of "Internet bullying", just a bit of banter between me and ABitBatty. Please read my previous post where I joked that I was going to call SS myself about the things I do!!

chunky I think in an ideal world we would all talk to someone first. But in reality there's no easy way to address an issue like this - even with a good friend. Because you could address it casually ie "oh you don't tie rope to the door do you? what about if there was a fire..." but you couldn't follow it up, couldn't have a serious discussion about it could you?

'the extreme tidiness is noteworthy'

If youread sakura'spost you will see she actually said that the OP should talk rather than report. It was a sensible post.