to consider reporting friend to SS?

[sillysalley]

I have a friend who's approach to parenting is just ... well ... worrying really.

Her and her husband have a crazy fascination with keeping the house like a show home and nothing else seems to be of importance other than that. I cant emphasise how much of a fascination it is, not just that they have a tidy house but things like
no baby gates allowed
children not allowed toys anywhere other than their bedroom
children not allowed to sit on the expensive leather sofa if they are wearing clothes with buckles and belts etc

Well i visited recently and their 2 year old is still not speaking (not even a single word, he makes very little noise)

Then she told me something that really worried me. Her 2 year old was really ill recently and she had to send for an ambulance because he could hardly breathe. She said
'I could hear him in his cot struggling to breathe, i was so panicked because it took me ages to get to him, trying to untie all the rope around his door handle to get into his room'

I presume the rope is to stop him going out of his bedroom in the night, as they wont have baby gates becuase they damage the walls.

Then she went on to say the hospital wanted her 2yo to stay in for the night but she refused and took him home.

I cant believe that HV or the hospital have not picked up on this, but I am truly worried. The thing is she isnt the kind of person you could approach about the issue. So all I can think of is an anonymous referal the SS.

Would that be unreasonable?

CMM OCD is one of the things that assessors look for when diagnosing a child, esp.if it is a complex case- along with aprental history of drepression etc. I was told this last week by a Psych specislising in commorbidity, LD and asd.

So its not a ridiculous staement at all.

However, I did say if trhe mum had OCD and avocated both use of own instinct and advice rather a ssd referral- in fact I deliberately said I wouldnt refer to SSD.

in fact can you imagine the mn thread "Ibu to be upset that my friend said she thought I was abusing my child?" which would be followed by a barage of "yanbu, your friend is clearly an interfeering bitch, ditch her at once."

Wannabe, actually I think you could... given a little bit of knowledge it would be very easy to say "ooh did you get that from the toddler taming book? I have heard some things about using those methods, you must have been so scared when you couldn't get the rope off... what method are you going to use now?" and follow it up with qs about how it is working out for them and so on.

It is perfectly possible to sound supportive whilst also leading a conversation a certain way! TBH I feel that coul be done here where the op is not even good friends with her, she bought it up after all so is clearly not unhappy to have it talked about!

No, saying 'the extreme tidiness is noteworthy' isn't sensible. It's too subjective, puts people off being tidy for fear of Social Services being reported. It's a ridiculous thing to say. 'the extreme tidiness is noteworthy' absolutley ridiculous.

Y'know its threads like this that make me see why some people think that MN is full of judgemental harpies...

Not speaking at age 2 is not unusual and does not mean a child has any problem at all. Nice to know that early interevention is crucial though, I guess the 3 year waiting list for speech therapy and my inability to pay 150 quid an hour for private therapy makes me a terrible parent?

Off to tidy up living and lock children in room (with stair gate, I'm a PC child abuser doncha know)

Chunky, peachy did not say it was a link in every case just that it is thought it could be in some cases haveing OCD does not mean your child will be affected and not having it does not mean they won't be affeted. I cannot see anything riiculous in her post!

Pooex it is if there is an issue

how can you know, unless you have assessment, if there is one?

aprental instinct?Mine toldme ds3 was nt. bollocks was he.

if they have a rash you get iot checked out, why not anything else that strays from the norm?

ABit she said it was notable when added to other things

and then to talk, not get ssd in.

I see no issues, sorry.

However I am judgemental harpie

Having a SN child myself and knowing how devastating it was to find that out, I would not have appreciated a so-called friend involving SS or calling my HV on my behalf without talking to me first. It doesn't matter if you are a good friend or not (tbh it's probably easier if you're not), you should still bring the issues up with the parent first, even if it's just mentioning things in conversation, rather than going in all guns blazing. Even if you say "I have a friend who's DC was like yours, didn't say much, and she was advised to get him checked out asap. Turns out he has ASD. Nit saying your DC has, but for peace if mind would be worth getting him checked out".
As for the rope tie, the OP could just ask if she's still using it.

I did say

1. I wouldnt refer to SSD

and 2. I would want to know if the rope was still being used

Both would appear to agree with your post, no?

wannabe - I hardly think anyone is suggesting the OP speak to her friend to tell get she suspects her of child abuse!! We are telling her that her best bet is to have a chat with the woman to establish all the facts before casting judgement. Therefore there would be no need for the MN post you described.

Oh the asd and ocd thing

We don't know what causes asd.We know that there is some pattern in some famillies with what seems to be a genetic asd and other things such as ocd, add /adhd, dyslexias etc.

We know that these can run comorbidly with asd- depression is another.

We don't know why, though in famillies we assume there is a genetic thing.

(I say we, clearly I mean the wholeASD world, I am s tudent not a researcher LOL-my interest is in a different area).

Many people think (and I garee) that there are really many autisms, with shared presentations but not causes.

So a red flag is just that, and whilst there are factors there are no givens IYSWIM.

Even if tehre is a link I personally beleive that triggers exist and that some of these are avoidable and some not. DS4 is following an NT path right now and we avoid amny things (CF / GF diet,s till bf, etc etc). It may help, it may not, he might regress at midday for all I know.

There are no guarantees, just a lot of possibilities IYSWIM.

I am so confused by this thread

1 - OP said mum said she was panicked, so she is clearly not a deamon and does care for her DC and prob just not sure how to handle the situation of wandering toddler so choses the tying option

2 - a lot of your are suggesting it is OK to tie your childs door? If you hook your childs door closed and then unhook it when you go to bed, fair enough but to tie it over night is ridiculous.

3 - MNers are so apposed to calling SS? We are mothers! If there is a child at risk then call SS (not sure that this is necessary in this case but we are not IN the situation so can never really judge) For goodness sake, if one day someone posted should i call SS and you all said no and it turned up in the papers two weeks later that 'child is dead' and internet group of mothers suggest not to phone SS, even though there were slightly suspicious signs, how would you live with yourselves?

Ridiculous responses!

DS is unable to open his bedroom door because he can't manage the type of handle. His bedroom door is shut at night as otherwise he gets up and wanders round the top floor, as well as coming into our room to wake us up through the night.

As for not having toys around the house - we are lucky enough to have a playroom and all toys stay in there or are put back there at the end of the day if they've strayed elsewhere.

I don't think not talking at 2 does stray from the norm, once hearing problems are ruled out and child can communicate in their on way. Its on the normal spectrum, the outside of it for sure , but still there.
I don't live in the UK, we don't have the set up you do, my son is on a waiting list that would be far too late for him if he did have a real problem. Fortunately I don't believe that to be the case.

For goodness sake, if one day someone posted should i call SS and you all said no and it turned up in the papers two weeks later that 'child is dead' and internet group of mothers suggest not to phone SS, even though there were slightly suspicious signs, how would you live with yourselves?

I'd like to think we'd apply some common sense to the situation and that if there was enough suspicion to suggest a child might die, we'd all call SS. In this case there simply isn't.

Every phone generates paperwork, is that what we want the few social workers we have left doing, writing up, data entry and filing this load of bollocks ?

Brokenhearted, no-one actually did say she did it overnight, for all we - or the op knows she could just do it until he falls asleep in the evening, or just at nap time in the day ... or even she could not do it at all but was searching for opinions so used an example where the dangers would have been playing on her mind... we have no idea!

I certainly wouldn't refer to ss because of an overly clean house or a two year old who doesn't speak. But I would wonder whether an overly clean house might indicate a problem on behalf of the mother, OCD etc, and would potentially wonder whether having a child might be very stressful for her (as children are messy creatures by nature).

And I do think an overly clean house could also be a very stressful environment for a child, who was unable to make any mess/play with any toys etc.

But again there's no way to approach that with someone, even though she might benefit from some help from her gp.

Brokenhearted. Let's say your DC can climb over stairgates, can go down stairs by himself in the dark, and has a fascination for the cutlery drawer. What exactly do you recommend the course of action should be for the parent?

do people really lock their DCs in their rooms? what if they're ill in the night? Nightmares?
Stairgate in the doorway is different - presumably the door is open?

i have issues with over tidy houses- but i think its more that i wonder how the hell it can be done- i do however know someone who was reported to ss (because of violence between her and dh- not for a tidy house ) who later was overheard saying that she looked after her children well because they had a bath everyday, ate dinner at the table and always had clean clothes she did not mention love and attention once- i find the whole concept of tidy house over happy kids a bit odd, obviously some people can tidy AND have happy kids but the ones i mention here were left in a highchair watching mind numbing quantities of cbeebies all day- not allowed to move around the house incase they made a mess

Anyway- i think ss is a bit extreme but someone needs to at least ask her about the rope and maybe discuss an alternative.

Brokken - point 3 you make is just ridiculous. As is this thread.

Surely people signed up on MN are not pathetic enough to take advice from complete strangers from an internet forum regarding the health and safety of their child or anybody elses child they 'may' be concerned about?

It beggars belief that people could be so stupid.

Hints and tips on cooking, holidays, cars and light hearted matters, yes - but to actually feel the need to seriously ask a bunch of strangers over the internet about a serious matter and take to heart their responses? Surely not?

StillSquiffy, good question though. I have no idea and will no doubt be on MN in a year or so asking that!

According to this thread yes Stealth, I must admit I am a bit shocked at how many people use bolts and latches...TBH I think it is a toss up as to which is worse - with a rope at least the child can see out and call if need be as they can with a gate..with a lock there is no give at all. I do see the fire point and that is a vaild one...

I am not judging anyone here, infact I am trying hard to stay neutral, however I am surprised!

Whjy is there no way of discussing these things wannabe? I mjst be a weird friend as I do sit and talk to my friends about things like that if I have any concern for them.

Not long ago I sat my friend down and said 'honey, I think you are depressed. Would you like me to mind your dd while you go to the doctor?' and then we talked.

If this woman is struggling she will probably appreciate someone caring enough to ask if she is okay.

The op says that the DHs are close. Could the op not get her DH to speak to his friend? i.e "Oh I hear you have been having trouble getting your ds to stay in his room? We went through the same thing have you tried rapid return?" or similar?