to consider reporting friend to SS?

[sillysalley]

I have a friend who's approach to parenting is just ... well ... worrying really.

Her and her husband have a crazy fascination with keeping the house like a show home and nothing else seems to be of importance other than that. I cant emphasise how much of a fascination it is, not just that they have a tidy house but things like
no baby gates allowed
children not allowed toys anywhere other than their bedroom
children not allowed to sit on the expensive leather sofa if they are wearing clothes with buckles and belts etc

Well i visited recently and their 2 year old is still not speaking (not even a single word, he makes very little noise)

Then she told me something that really worried me. Her 2 year old was really ill recently and she had to send for an ambulance because he could hardly breathe. She said
'I could hear him in his cot struggling to breathe, i was so panicked because it took me ages to get to him, trying to untie all the rope around his door handle to get into his room'

I presume the rope is to stop him going out of his bedroom in the night, as they wont have baby gates becuase they damage the walls.

Then she went on to say the hospital wanted her 2yo to stay in for the night but she refused and took him home.

I cant believe that HV or the hospital have not picked up on this, but I am truly worried. The thing is she isnt the kind of person you could approach about the issue. So all I can think of is an anonymous referal the SS.

Would that be unreasonable?

"The child was taken to hospital..if there were physical signs of abuse the medical staff would have noticed and called ss"

Well, you'd hope so, wouldn't you? Baby P had a broken back and the doctor at the hospital didn't spot that.

But she obviously cares about her ds because she took him to the hospital to make sure he was ok.

And there could be myriad reasons as to why the child isn't speaking - I don't think an immaculate home is one of them.

If you're very worried, why don't you arrange play dates and cheer up the kid with your kids? Have them at your house and demonstrate to your friend how relaxed you are, that everything is washable and if stuff gets broken, heigh ho, that's life, isn't it?

I've only skim read this thread so if I've missed any important info, sorry.

Perhaps tying rope round door handles is standard parenting for the average MNer?

presumably baby P's mother took him to the hospital? She must have cared about him then as she took him to hospital.

When ds was a baby I used to meet up with my very middle class ante natal group and when I mentioned that ds wasn't sleeping well, I was asked why I wasn't knocking him out with medised, everyone else was at it. It surprised me. It seems that feeding your child fruit shoots or putting chocolate in their lunch boxes are complete no no but things that I consider dangerous are perfectly acceptable.

"but at what point is it justified to make how a child is treated your business?"

For me and I can only speak for myself when I know for a fact that a child is being hurt. Not what might happen or is a potential danger because we all fall into that catagory everytime we step outside the front door.
Just as bad as ignoring blantent abuse is creating a fearful environment where a mother cannot confide in friends or family that she is struggling because of what might be reported to whom.
If there was more funding and helpful support within the NSCP and SS then we might feel a bit differently but the gut reactions following the Baby P case is that everyone is guilty until proven innocent.

Ah wannabe I don't care if I get shot down, I cannot see an issue in taking independent advice for a concern, independent specialist advice

They give you a reasonable idea of thereality of something being picked up; I did chat through a scenario with a friendandtheysaid it wouldn't be picked up even though theyagreed kids in real danger, so I knew thatrather than risk the friendship for help it was better that I remain in the equation (very serious caseinvolving al sorts of mh, crime and donesticabuse)

I thnk op needs to read and consider and then go with instinct; what'sworse- end of a friendship or knowing you could have helped a child who was in need? For me the child in need is a priority.

I'd want to know if the rope was still in use first though, if so given first scare I would be seriously worried (have scanned thread for mroe info but toddler being a PITA livewire LOL)

"presumably baby P's mother took him to the hospital? She must have cared about him then as she took him to hospital"

She may well have been crying out for help but nobody within the system listened did they ? That's their failing nobody else's.

Broke potential is important IMO and yes, IME of a career related to child protection (not SSD)

Stepping out the door each day is a normal risk; however for example I have come across seven year olds running the streets at 3am; no actual harm but a very real risk so needed reporting. Likewise a great dealof drug abusing aprents etc- waiting until actual harm is too late, the skill is knowing when torefer and taht'shalf learned and half instinct

Hmmm I don't really BELIEVE this post because it doesn't make sense.

You can't shut a door with a rope without tying it to something, and tying it to something would mean a hook or similar, so you may as well use a cabin lock or a stair-gate. And if it WAS tied to something, then why would it need untying? It's just a loop of rope. And if the child is in a cot then he can't get out anyway.

It doesn't make any sense.

(I don't however think that a rope is any different from a stair-gate - can someone explain why it is worse? A stair-gate is basically caging them into their own room and is just the same fire-risk. You can leave the door ajar if it is tied with a rope.)

Piglet, I do think SS is going to far but I have to raise issue with your post!

It is not anyones job except SS to start looking for evidence of bruising, over-sexualised behaviour etc. THere is no way any lay person can know enough to be able to decide if there is truly a problem of not with things like that, thye can only report if they do see it not try to investigate if they don't. Advising someone to start looking at things like that is asking far too much and could be dangerous or damaging IMO.

Wannabe, last night you made lots of comments about the child being tied up in his room and padlocking the door etc, all very emotive but very much overstating the case, there is no suggestion of padlock and the child is not tied anywhere! I do think you are entitled your POV but over-dramitising it helps no-one!

Well clearly I don't have the learned aspect as I am not in that area of work.

But equally as I said earlier if we all feel we are being spied and snitched on then we'll keep everything bottled up and inside.
I know people who lie to their health visitors because they are embarrased about sleeping arrangements etc, is that how we want motherhood to be ?

MP, most people tie to a banister or to the handle of a door opposite or at right angles, it is not at all dificult to do in most houses.

MP I think the issue with the rope is if it hard to untie

however I rmemeber being trapped behind a stairgate with a secvere injury that needed surgery (fracturethrough ulna / radius, shoulder dislocation) and my sis being unable to raise the alarm so happily ackbowledge I am none too confy about stairgates unless usedwith an intercom either

ABitBatty - Thats exactly what I have said. My house is always clean and tidy when I have visitors (again depends who it is, if it's just my mum she sees it as the shithole tip it really is! ) but it's not like that all the time. In fact, as I type I have lovely sticky handprints all over my beautiful black glass tables as well as the layer of dust that's sitting on them, and the bits all over my floor! Doesn't make me panic though, but if I knew someone was coming over for the day (especially someone I didn't see very often), I would want to make a good impression so I would dust and clean the tables, Hoover the floor and put the toys away. I would also give my kitchen a quick squizz and put done bleach down my toilet.

But I suppose that makes me an OCD suffering, neurotic, weird, neglectful mother!!
PLUS........I've even locked my son in his room on occasions to stop him coming out when he's supposed to be going to sleep.
Shit, I think I'm gonna report myself to SS

at no point did I say the child was tied in his room. And I asked the question, if the op had said her friend put a padlock on the door would people still think it was ok? and if not, then why is tying a door shut with rope ok.

Broke the system failed baby p totally. But they were not responsible for the abuse he suffered - his parents were, and that includes his mother.

One word:
FIRE

And I hope it never happens.

I think it's weird enough to pick up the phone and call SS /HV for an anonymous chat.
But I would call my friend first and ask her how she is and how her DS is and has he started talking yet?

I would tell her that I was worried about them, especially how withdrawn I thought DS was and listen to when she had to say.

to 'what' she had to say - sorry

I am struggling to reconcile the idea of an OCD mother with a toddler who is likely to batter down his own door to such an extent that he needs a rope tied across various parts of the upstairs ...

I still don't see how you could tie a door shut every night to such an extent that it would take ages to un-tie. Just loop it over.

Is it worse than my friends with large houses who don't use baby monitors, so they aren't woken by any crying?

Sorry, some bleach, not done bleach!! Bloody iPhone is deciding for itself what word to put in.

Broke you are right about everything being bottled up if etc....

but there'sa balance and I think the nspcc line (and it istrulynon, no namestaken oranything) occupies that middle groundeffectively.

Also, from my own personal eperience, therehave been times I have begged ssd (sn dept) for hlp and been refused; a call from a supportive teacher may have helped enormously at that stage andsaved us issues now.

I am alwayssadabout2year oldswhere people arewaiting on delayedsppech; early interventin isa massively important part of heling a child, the myth of forced dx is just that, and it is justas important to get thhese things checked outas visible physical symptoms. I missedds3's slow language development (was dealing with ds1's asd dx), and will never know how much that has contributed to his now fairly sever sn. We missedn out on so many useful avenues ofsupport because we missed thered flags and I am now evangelicl about early input

An experience I had recently with the NSPCC has left me a little ...reserved about recommending them for borderline cases like this.

They have their own set of rules and expectations and they do not always match up with those worked to by SS and the court system so I was advised very strongly by NSPCC to refer to SS, to insit certain things happened and to go to court if I had to because they felt the behaviour I was discussing should mean various action (by strongly I mean Ihad to explain it to various managers again and again because they "couldn't believe it"). However SS did not even feel it warrented a phonecall never mind investigation and, had I gone to court about it, I could have actually placed the child in increased danger by opening up the avenue for someone to ask for more than they already had IYSWIM.

What I am saying is, the fact that NSPCC find something a problem does not always have any practical application in terms of SS or Law. I am not saying don't call them but I am saying don't expect that what they say is actually what will happen, sometimes it is not.

MP not really, ocd = same genetic pathway (theoretically) as asd. With a speech delay I would bewanting to no more (without clearly wouldnt occur to me mind)

FFS, maybe the woman couldn't get the bloody rope off because she was panicking, not because she had it tied all over the upstairs of her house!!! Hopefully she's realised that it's not such a great idea to tie his door up and won't do it again. That is down to the OP to find out rather than interfering by going straight to SS.

Zazen, what has the child talking got to do with it? My dd2 only started talking a fortnight ago she is 2 and half.

Some children start talking late it is no reflection on parenting.

Dd2 is talked to, sang to, read to, played with regularly. Infact dd1 reads to her everynight, after which I read to them both.

Atm I am helping to care for baby who has is 'broke' apparently her eye is poorly.

DMNC valid point, my experiences good but asalwaysthese things depend on the judgements of human beings so immensely variable