to be miffed that dd2's teacher says 'anyfink'?

[kittywise]

dd2 came home the other day saying that her teacher had said 'anyfink' and 'that wasn't right was it'?

I said that it wasn't right.

She's a primary school teacher fhs. She should be able to pronounce words properly

Some people on here must spend their lives constantly irritated due to the terrible habits of others. So glad I'm not offended by harmless things, it makes life and the people I meet more enjoyable!

YANBU - will repeat all those that say it's nothing to do with regional accents it's to do with the impossibility of teaching children to write using phonics when you don't pronounce letters/sounds correctly. It's like having a driving instructor who rides the clutch or crosses their hands on the steering wheel!

It's nothing to do with class, its to do with ability to teach - although I wouldn't be reacting after a single 'anyfink'...

spicybingowings- did you read the link about the Cockney accent which specifically highlighted the use of 'f' instead of 'th'?
It is regional, you wouldn't hear someone from Yorkshire saying it.

Good earlier point made by someone about foreign accents. Should we not allow these people to teach?

honestly - I am losing the will to live on this - we don't write (or should I say rite) following the blummin rules of phonics (or should I say foniks)

Oh dearie me, I say 'pardon' rather than 'what', because my working class parents who magically turned into doctors - despite their accents - think that saying 'what' sounds extremely rude and I am inclined to agree. However, I understand that some people in some parts of the country think that 'what' is acceptable, so would not seek to correct them, since the English language is a large and expanding entity in which there is room for much variation.

Very sad to hear from these northern teachers who change their accents in the classroom as though they are 'wrong'. And to hear from people who say 'I'm working class but I don't say nuffink' in some desperate stab at conformity with a non-existent 'norm'. All sort of missing the point about the vagaries of the language, the absolute lack of certainty about what is 'right' (since different dialects have hung onto elements of English which were completely standard at different periods of history and each obey their own rules) and that there is nothing intrinsically superior about a home counties accent. Personally, I shudder to hear those elongated vowels but I have the manners - and the linguistic understanding - to hold fire on my criticism should my DC's teachers use them.

er not conforming or makingany desperate stab...

That's a little unfair ( because this is getting very convoluted and shouldn't be quite so heated really). 'These northern teachers' have not changed their accents (not this one - it softened over a long time) because of ideas of right or wrong! Individual accents are mainly 'cemented' between the ages of 18-24 when we enter much more varied social experiences and travel much further from home resulting in voices and words naturally changing with time. My (not very strong) accent changed as a result of being at a university a long way from home and being with different people when I started work (which was not as a teacher originally).

From a personal point of view (I won't speak for all 'these northern teachers'!), I have probably softened my accent a little more since I became a teacher in order to pronounce as many words in as 'neutral' a way as possible to make spelling more comprehensible. We teach a great deal about accent and dialect in Y9 and again in Y12 and Y13 and so for me to suggest that I think ANY accent is 'wrong' or 'superior' would make me a pretty lousy teacher! (I've also had great fun with several classes being able to show a rather exaggerated form of my accent and dialect in comparison to others. It's a really fun subject to teach.) I also studied the history of the language to a great extent and so, for me, showing how different accents have developed along very non-standard lines is a great celebration of our language.

However, to understand those changes and to grasp accent phonetically, children have to have the basic tools of spelling. If, by modifying my accent to a more neutral way of speaking, I have made this very difficult subject easier for even the least able child to understand, then I'm sorry, I won't be a snob - or a slave - to my childhood accent by being confined by it. Retaining (or in my case, 'rediscovering') my accent would have been an inverted snobbery in itself! I am not defined by the way I speak - I am who I am however I speak - and so losing my accent ever-so-slightly for the very good reason of teaching (for me) more effectively, was worth a little compromise.

poor teachers they kent can't do anything right can they!

YANBU
A friend of mine picked up her duaghter's teacher for putting in a school report 'she could of done better..'
If a teacher speaks incorrectly, they are more likely to write/spell incorrectly and that may include missing mistakes made by the kids.
One of my dds teachers has a strong Wakefield accent and I don't have any problem with that. It's been said already - this is not an accent issue.

I think you should be very thankful that you don't actually have anything serious to be worrying about.
This is pathetic and I am laughing my head off. I have heard everything now.
Get a grip fgs what would ever happen if something really bad happened in your childs life.

I have not changed my accent or felt the need to conform to any percieved ideas. I have never said nuffink or anything similar. I love my accent and would not want it to change.

I do correct my dd/nieces/nephews/kids I teach for saying 'What?' (WOT-stroppy face) instead of 'Pardon'.

It's just more polite to say Pardon.

Innit??

Actually posh people say 'what'!

"If a teacher speaks incorrectly, they are more likely to write/spell incorrectly "

awaywiththefairies, how did you make that particular giant leap?

I drop my aitches sometimes. I might say "I 'aven't done that yet" although I try not to.

Are you seriously suggesting that I am more likely to believe that "haven't" is spelled "aven't" than someone who was born in Kensington?

What an utterly ridiculous thing to assume.

It is quite right to correct a teacher's written errors, if they are as bad as "would of."

However this thread is about spoken pronunciation - what the teacher said, not what the teacher wrote.

Unless you can find evidence that the teacher wrote "anyfink" or "anythink" then there is absolutely no way you can claim that "this is not an accent issue." It cannot be anything other than an accent issue as it was about how the teacher pronounced a word and nothing has been said by the OP about how she spells it.

By asserting that people who cannot pronounce things to your satisfaction will therefore be less likely to be able to spell things to your satisfaction, you are committing an act of pretty stunning prejudice.

I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself and what you truly think.

What/pardon? It's what isn't it? But more people mistakenly think it's pardon and as language is there to carry meaning and messages you should use pardon.

Primary school teachers should speak properly as it does shape spelling and speech. Many many people write4 would of instead of would have because of the way it is said. My dcs, when they first started to write, assumed that 3 started with an 'f' despite my frequent correction of how they should pronounce it.

My FIL got a tefal qualification the man speaks with a broad (vile) Coventry accent and can't spell.......

No it's not What instead of Pardon. What is a posher version used by upper middle class people; Pardon is not. Neither is better so we all use the one with which we're most comfortable.

The 'northern teachers' who have talked about feeling their way of speaking is 'wrong' are well-represented on this thread, so I wasn't making a generalisation.

And there is no such thing as a 'neutral' way of saying a word. That suggests there is a correct way, which just ain't the truth. Acknowledging the different ways in which a word may be said but pointing out that in Standard English dialect it is spelled in one particular way seems to be honest, non-judgemental and absolutely simple for a child to grasp - if they haven't twigged it already.

My older DC both went through a phase as toddlers when they would say things like 'look at that jiraf/jirarf' because I would say the former and DH would say the latter. They can still spell giraffe...

I am loving the idea of a tefal qualification (sorry!).

People speak differently, use different accents, different collections of words to say the same thing. It's great, makes English an interesting language.

Standardisation may make life easier for learners, but bear in mind there is a movement in TEFL teaching to standardise "th" sounds out of English altogether, as it's a hard sound for most foreign speakers to make. English teaching/learning is big business, and it's certainly not the 60m people living in the UK who have any absolute right over it.

Doh! I always say tefal (as in teefal, the advert) and therefore due to my own sense of humour have spelt it incorrectly, illustrating my point perfectly.

I love the English language accents and I am quite sure no other country has such a variety (according to Melvyn Bragg) but it has to be taught according to OED phonetics and not missing the odd aitch, or dropping tees etc.

What is older English.

I meant 'neutral' as in without a broad/heavy accent, which is possible and as close to 'Standard English' as it gets. I try to keep words as close to their phonetic sounds as possible (without distorting the words incomprehensibly). So, for a simple example, I would use 'bath' because of the short 'a' spelling not because I am northern and not southern. Where there are short vowel sounds, I keep them short for simplicity. Equally, I've used 'vase' an an example of English/American pronunciation which has led onto the whole bath/barth debate. There's always fun to be had with the Standard English/accent debate.

I'm simply making a point about teaching spelling as effectively as possible because I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about spelling and grammar!(I make them do spelling and grammar tests even in Y10 - my liberal head of dept. hates me). I've even noticed that when I've done spelling starter activities, I annunciate more clearly too. I make a special effort with my particular bug bear of 'would HAVE' and not 'would of'. (Drives me barmy when I read that in a kid's work!)

I think, to an extent, I put on a 'professional' hat when I teach but my 'spelling' accent calms a little when I'm not teaching spelling. Perhaps other teachers do too? I've also found that speaking in Standard English helps with classroom authority in some cases; accents can seem very friendly - which some kids take as a lack of authority - and teachers aren't supposed to be trying to be pals with their pupils. Same for making myself understood: whilst my accent is not really broad with heavy flattened Sheffield vowels (grew up in wrong area of city for broad accent), those south of Derbyshire would immediately know I was a northener due to my rhythm of speech and the lack of elongated vowels etc. and so using SE means that the kids can concentrate on WHAT I am saying rather than HOW I am saying it. It all seems to work!

Maybe the real issue here is not about accent and spelling but about 'lazy' speech? You can retain an accent and still speak words properly ie. close to their spelling sound 'th' not 'f' and 'g' not 'k'. Therefore, the teacher in the OP could have remained true to her accent and still said 'anything' correctly in order to set a good example. My point is that it really doesn't hurt to speak clearly and simply when you're teaching the language.

Another case of Melvyn Bragg just saying stuff with no particular evidence to back it up!

It's interesting to compare with German, where there are lots of different regional dialects across Germany, Switzerland and Austria - but they have a much more modern spelling system. Don't get me wrong, I love the way you can see a history of word in English, but I do feel a bit sorry for dd1 trying to learn spelling at the moment.

Co Durham people are the glottal stoppers extraordinaires... can even do it saying "cafe frappe". I must admit, working in a place where there a lot of very educated people who nevertheless often have strong regional accents, it does make me wonder who exactly is doing all this "judging". It is after all possible to have a first from Cambridge and indulge in the odd glottal stop...

I think I would have to agree with pinkx4. To me it DOES feel lazy when people skip parts of words or pronounce them badly.

Dare I throw in that 'proper' English should be Queen's English?
And I would argue that there needs to be a norm, in order for accents to exsist. So if the Queens English/ home counties accent is the norm then anything else is an accent

Someone mentioned Pygmalion, and I know it is my Fair Lady, my I always loved 'by rights they should be taken out and hung. For the cols blooded murder of the Engligh tongue'

Students are taught dialect as part of English A level. Losing the 'ing' from words like anything and replacing them with 'n/nk' is a part of regional dialect and dialect studies have used is as focus for the region below Norwich since 1974. It is often taught as an example of dialect to A level students.

A level students are also taught that no dialect or accent is anymore correct in spoken speech. Nothing, nowt and nothink are all equally acceptable. Nowt if far more contentious than nothink to many adults, but is simply a Northern pronunciation of naught.

Many international studies have shown that dialect diversity in a classroom have no impact on children's ability to learn standard written English.

The dialect and accent in the South East is characterised by the addition of k sounds and the glottal stop. Standard English is by definition not characteristic of any geographical location, including the South East.

Only 2% of British people speak standard English with a standard English accent. If the OP wants her child to be one of the 2% she needs to pay for private education.

The accent/dialect element in A level Lang is great fun to teach! We taught it in Y9 as a prelim to some Shakespeare work to help show development of language and the Y9s really took to the whole topic. They're very open-minded and don't judge on accent which is why they adopt so many different forms of speech.