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Original poster

to be miffed that dd2's teacher says 'anyfink'?

279 replies

kittywise · 12/10/2009 07:07

dd2 came home the other day saying that her teacher had said 'anyfink' and 'that wasn't right was it'?

I said that it wasn't right.

She's a primary school teacher fhs. She should be able to pronounce words properly

OP posts:
taczilla · 13/10/2009 22:38

Personally I love accents some more than others mind you but what I like most of all is diction. Say it your way just with crisp diction. I have lived in the South East for almost 20 years and when I do a glottal stop in my own Northern Irish accent I immediately hear it and cringe.

It is obvious where I am from but I sort of sound as if I am speaking with the intention of being clear if you see what I mean.

ermintrude13 · 13/10/2009 22:59

Ah right, there is no f in anything. Neither is there an f in rough. There is no f in phonics. And there is no f-in point in having a discussion with people who have an unshakeable belief in their own linguistic superiority combined with a total lack of confidence in the ability of their DC to grasp the simple fact that there is no one true blueprint for the english language.

campion · 14/10/2009 01:45

That's kind of funny, ermintrude.

Anyfink just sounds a bit ... well... babyish. Like you've never quite mastered proper speech. Which is something to be sympathetic about if you have genuine speech and language problems but slightly worrying in a teacher of primary school children.

In some secondary schools the kids would be taking the piss.

CheerfulYank · 14/10/2009 01:50

Living in the midwest I've got what people think of as the basic "American" accent (no Southern drawl or Bah-ston accent), although like most Minnesotans I've got a bit of a sing-song lilt left over from the Scandinavians who settled the place.

My biggest pet peeve is when people say that they "borrowed" something to someone. LENT! LENT! You LENT it to them! ARRRRRRRRRFGHH!

kickassangel · 14/10/2009 02:02

oh, cheerful yank, i haven't heard that over here yet.

used to hear it all the time in the n of england - from pupils who really didn't know that it was wrong.

however, what is with the american use of the verb 'bring'. i had a VERY confusing coversation with someone about her son, who TOOK food back to his college house after visiting her, only she kept saying 'every time he visits, he brings food in my tupperware. now i'm running out'
and i was thinking 'if he's bringing you tupperware, how come you're running out?'
eventually, i remembered. it's one of those things i knew, but when i hear it, i give it the 'british' meaning, and after a few sentences my brain was realising that we were having 2 different conversations - hers & mine!

me4sunny · 14/10/2009 10:10

accent or not but 'that wasn't right was it' is actually grammatically WRONG - it has nothing to do with a regional touch!

me4sunny · 14/10/2009 10:18

"the simple fact that there is no one true blueprint for the English language. " - really? than English is truly a unique language as most other languages have ONE correct way of pronunciation and grammar and many dialects and incorrect way of say/spelling/structuring sentences based on a less perfect ... well... education

Languages I am fluent at are Russian, french and German, well and English ... I lived in a few European countries and went to school and university there - never before have I heard that a language does not have a blueprint as you call it ... may be UK schools should start re-introducing grammar lessons again? Might help

me4sunny · 14/10/2009 10:20

"the simple fact that there is no one true blueprint for the English language. " - really? than English is a truly unique language as most other languages have ONE correct way of pronunciation and grammar and many dialects and incorrect ways of pronuncing/spelling or structuring sentences based on a less perfect ... well... education

Languages I am fluent at are Russian, French and German, and a bit less in English ... I have lived in a few European countries and went to school and university there - never before have I heard that a language does not have a blueprint as you call it ... may be UK schools should start re-introducing grammar lessons again? Might help

cory · 14/10/2009 10:34

I don't get the posters who think children are not going to be able to spell if exposed to a working class accent. Since when has English been a phonetic language? Should we all go back to an Old English pronunciation, then, when words were spoken as they were written? Surely any child who can learn that "enough" is not written as "enuff" can also learn to spell "anyfink" "anything"?

pinkx4 · 14/10/2009 10:54

cory:
As an 11-18 teacher and GCSE Lit and Lang examiner, I really wish I could say you were right but I'm afraid that we're seeing more and more non-standard phonetic spelling and text speak in exam papers. Many are incomprehensible. Not sure if this is just 'working class accents' though (or indeed any other accent), it's also the influence of the mobile phone, rap and other music (that I can't name, being an old 'un)and all kinds of other languages that are flooding into the country. It does seem that we're fighting a bit of a losing battle. Whilst language should not be stationery, there are limits to how non-standard it can be for communication purposes which is why we have dictionaries, thesaurus etc. as guides to writing and why it helps if children can be exposed to what would be the 'standard' forms in these sources.

However, that is not to say that we should underestimate children either. Yes, most are capable of writing words correctly whatever pronunciation they hear - eventually. But, in those early stages of learning spelling which so many children rightly strugglew with due to some of the complex phonemes we have, using the right letters in the words ('th' not 'f' and 'g' not 'k') can help with spelling.

If it's any consolation, modern English is much simpler than Old English/Anglo-Saxon!
The sounds that we THINK were used (we can only interpret as we don't know how it sounded for certain) are very different to those forms written down in pre-1066 texts!

ermintrude13 · 14/10/2009 10:57

English is indeed unlike many other languages in its geographical variations, having bastardised huge swathes of Latinate and Romance languages, Germanic languages and influences from Scandinavia to name only the basic structures.

Once Caxton introduced the printing press the need for a Standard English, to be understood by all, arose, but that SE itself is constantly being revised and amended. Before then the oral tradition of various areas meant that even within England there were many grammatical differences and even a completely different set of vocab depending on where you were eg. a northerner would refer to 'eggys' (from Anglo-Saxon) and a southerner to 'oeffs' (from the Norman) and neither would have a clue what the other was saying. France and Germany in particular have worked very hard at standardising their languages, often stamping out regional variations in a somewhat draconian manner; Britons seem keener on hanging on to their dialects, the strength of which are often an indicator of all manner of social and economic developments (there's lots of fascinating research about how young people in a community troubled by unemployment or threatened by 'incomers' reject the 'aspirational' SE linguistics of their originally working-class parents and revert to the speech patterns of their grandparents)

So, calling all non-SE dialects 'wrong' is just - well, wrong. The internal dynamics and rules within dialects are just as consistent, and as valid. I'm sure that the teacher who said 'nuffink' usually speaks with a Stndard English dialect but has in this case used her natural, presumably southern, accent (and accents do of course include non-Received Pronunication variations in the ways words are actually said).

This is a language in which Halfpennyworth is pronounced 'Ayputh', Cholmondoley is Chumley and Featherstonehaugh is Fanshawe . Our DC are going to hear huge variations of pronunciation and it will do them no harm at all!

pranma · 14/10/2009 11:09

ghoti=fish
gh as in rough
o as in women
ti as in patient

Original poster
kittywise · 14/10/2009 11:56

Yes it has a blueprint now. It didn't used to be it does now.

In school SE should be taught and used by teachers.

OP posts:
BalloonSlayer · 14/10/2009 12:26

Is Featherstonehaugh really pronouced Fanshawe?

I am SO disappointed.

I really hoped there were some poor buggers saddled with the name Feather-Stone-whore which is how I said it in my head.

CantThinkofFunnyName · 14/10/2009 12:31

HA LOL I heard about that name Featherstonehaugh when I was at secondary school - can't remember how - but I always remember that it is pronounced Fanshaw - and have had quite a few arguments over the years about it. Just one of those things you remember - nice to see someone else using that example on here!

notunique · 14/10/2009 12:37

No way! Please tell me that you're winding us up please!

I knew a Fanshawe, pupils called her Fannyshawe!

I also know a Featherstone and she is definitely not Fan!

ermintrude13 · 14/10/2009 12:37

By the same token, I assured my DH that the correct pronunciation of 'Farquharson' is 'Fuckwit' . He hasn't met one yet but I'm not giving up hope.

BalloonSlayer · 14/10/2009 12:45

I knew a teacher called Mrs Flaherty which was pronounced Flarty. I always wondered what her nickname might have possibly been...

Pyrocanthus · 14/10/2009 12:50

There's a modern dance company called The Cholmondeleys and the Featherstonehaughs, i.e. the Chumleys and the Fanshaws.

'Tis true.

ermintrude13 · 14/10/2009 12:55

Yes - the Cholmondeleys are the women and the Fs are the men. They were doing arts centres 20 years ago - are they still going? . I saw the Chols on a bill including a musical comedy act from Sheffield called the Chuffinelles and the London Irish dancing group called the Hairy Marys

ermintrude13 · 14/10/2009 12:56

Sorry - going completely off subject now.

Pyrocanthus · 14/10/2009 12:58

My fault. They still seem to be about

ermintrude13 · 14/10/2009 18:37

Wow. They were fab; glad the company is still producing.

Pyrocanthus · 14/10/2009 20:03

I've heard of the Chuffinelles - lived in Sheffield for a year in the 80s. Can't remember whether I actually saw them though.

Paperclipcollector · 15/10/2009 15:32

Sorry have only time to read the first batch of posts to this thread - so forgive for any hijack!

My sons teacher is French I think, but has lived in England for many years, and maybe in a part of London where there is a typically West Indian dialect more prevalent rather then the broad 'London' accent (this is a guess from my coversations with him.)

Aside from his accent - he is probably one of the best teachers I have ever encountered. His pupils adore and respect him totally - and you can tell that he returns that to the pupils he teaches. He runs after school clubs, and has an open door policy to actively encourage pupils to approach him if they are having any issues with schoolwork etc.
My son and his friends have been subjected to many weeks (months?) of bullying which we found out about recently - as this teacher encouraged the children to tell their parents, which he followed up with phone calls. He and other teachers are handling the situation with tact and sensitively while ensuring us parents are kept abreast of the situation.

That is the type of teacher I would want my child to be in the care in school hours, ranther than worrying if they pronounce words properly or not, or if they have the 'right' or 'wrong' accent.

To the OP - get a grip.