to be miffed that dd2's teacher says 'anyfink'?

[kittywise]

dd2 came home the other day saying that her teacher had said 'anyfink' and 'that wasn't right was it'?

I said that it wasn't right.

She's a primary school teacher fhs. She should be able to pronounce words properly

Nnngh! You can't pronounce words in Standard English because SE is a dialect, not an accent. I think you mean you pronounce words as near to RP as you can - Received Pronunciation - think of the predominant 'BBC' accent - is spoken by a mere 2% of the population and changes over time so even that isn't 'neutral'.

Why is it 'lazy' for someone to consistently pronounce certain words in certain ways?! . Why should one person change to another's speech patterns? Nuffink is no easier to say than Nothing. I was brought up saying the latter so it's as lazy as lazy can be for me to carry on saying it. Reminds me of the oldsters who say that cursing is also 'lazy' because swear words are used by people who can't think of any better words to say. What they mean is that they personally find swearing offensive and are trying to find a rationale for criticising swear words themselves. Bollocks to that .

I too am a stickler for grammar and punctuation when writing in SE but completely respect the different, but just as (il)logical, constructs of other, non-SE dialects. Everyone can write in SE but change their verbal register according to whom they're talking to. Twas ever thus!

Anyone heard the queen speak recently? Even in the 1950s she'd have sounded like someone out of a horsey sort of finishing school. Only the queen and her closest cohorts speak the queen's english.

I met a Texan who claimed she did not have an accent but I did have an English one.... only in America.

Hear Hear balloon slayer (or should that be 'ear 'ear! I Must say I agree with all your posts and could have written them myself!

I do agree that "anythink" is rather lazy and i wouldn't like to hear it being used too often by a teacher, but TEACHERS ARE HUMAN which is a point that I think most mnetters seem to forget.

I have probably slipped up a few times in the classroom myself. But being from quite a shitty estate in a very shitty area of London, I have done rather well for myself to have made it to uni when most of my friends left school at 12, became single mums at 15, got into drugs, petty crime and so on.

After 10 years in the classroom, I still find it difficult to put on my "telephone" voice all day and all though I know how to speak properly it is not natural for me to do so & I have to constantly think about what I am going to say next - it is almost like speaking another language! I am so self-concious when speaking to anyone outside the classroom whilst in "teacher" mode as I know that I am being judged on my effectiveness and skill as a teacher purely on the way that i speak!

SO CUT me HER SOME SLACK!

My SIL is an infant teacher and I think she's very lax with her pronounation. This doesnt seen to be taught in teaching college. I cring when she speaks to my son with fink, was-sa???? etc. I have noticed that my son speaks like that after spending time with her. I was always picked up by my father for using F's instead of T's. I am in SE Wales and the tone and ending words higher is nothing to be with proper pronouncation. Mind you look at Eastenders -double negatives and plain terrible speach of course young children pick up on this - its horrible. I'd bring it up at the next parents evening. I'll be doing it when my DS1 goes to school.

Had the OP posted that she was concerned that the teacher was not presenting work of an appropriate pace and challenge for her child, never gave her child any feedback or couldn't control the class then I would be very sympathetic.

However, a teacher who is not a robot and reflects the linguistic diversity of UK in her speech is hardly a cause for concern. Surely it's what she's telling the class that's far more important, rather than the odd letter here and there.

I teach in a school in the far flung North of Scotland and I love it when the brightest children in the class throw in a local word to a discussion - especially when it sums up the situation better than the standard English word for it! Funnily enough, none of them ever write in anything other than standard English in a formal assessment - could that be because children/young people are much more linguistically aware than we give them credit for? My mother spent my childhood 'correcting' my use of dialect, which infuriated me as I knew perfectly well when (and when not) to use it!

Interesting to note that the post-vocalic 'r' that is now absent from RP (e.g. saying faaam instead of farm and caaah instead of car)would have been present in Queen Victoria's speech. Language is not static, it changes.

good grief not saying anyfink is hardly then putting on a telephone voice, it simply bothering to speak properly

my child's ta says `We was going'. Letters come home from school full of mistakes - most recent was party's for parties- how are the children ever supposed to learn correct English? would it be ok in maths if the teachers decided 2 plus 2 equals 5? these, and fink, are not regional variations, they are just examples of poor education and it is shocking. moving our daughter soon

Letters from school are often prepared by 'the ladies in the office' - I've never met a 'man in the office' - who may not have the highest level of written skills. Of course a teacher should proof-read but doesn't always have the time. The 'we was' construct is spot on for many dialetcts but not for Standard English, which is our common written form. Saying 'fink' is indeed a regional variation.

It's quite crazy how many desperate posters are using the criticisms 'lazy', 'poorly-educated' and 'just plain wrong' when they mean Common As Muck . Why can some of us have a discreet giggle about mistakes on letters from school and trust our children to find their own way through the rich labyrinth of the English language while others seem terrified that their darlings will begin missing Haitches in their writing?

Encourage your DC to read plenty of books and enjoy recognising accents and non-standard constructs - and stop demonising people what don't speak like you...

Any letter home should be proof-read by the teacher before it goes home. Just hope that the teacher can spell, punctuate and construct correct sentences.

You can pretend ' anyfink' doesn't matter all you like but, as you can see, people form instant opinions about it.

Who is supposed to point out the non-standard constructs to a child if the parents and teachers can't / won't?

What's so difficult about pronouncing 'th' and 'ing'?

Vive la regional accent, but for heavens sake, speak properly.

I hate lazy speech. I hate it when people miss out their 't's. Or miss out words, eg, 'I got to go toilet' (yukyukyuk)

raargh

Oh, and I'm a teacher. If that means anything...

'anfink' I think you'll find

Well I am honestly surprised by the reactions on this thread, not just because I've actually started a thread and had the majority of posters agree with me, but because most people think that saying 'anyfink' is indeed sloppy and lazy and not suitable for someone in the teaching profession!

I'm a teacher too...it means nothing! As this thread is specifically about teachers and the way they speak around children as an example (and NOT about accents used generally), I'm going to stick to teachers. I don't think it's 'lazy' to have an accent when applied to people in general (as accents are great and make us all individual so I'm not desperately cindemning accents as common as muck) but it is lazy when it applies to a TEACHER as it's 'lazy teaching', especially if you're teaching young children spelling. It makes it easier for them to learn if you say the right sound. How confusing must it be if you hear 'f-ink' and have to learn to spell it 'th-ink'? Once they can spell properly it doesn't matter so much how you speak in the classroom as accents don't make a great deal of difference in the long run but they CAN do with young ones. I'm all for making learning easier for them if possible, not confusing them. If that means correcting them or, as campion says, pointing out non-standard constructs, then I will do so.

(I'm not going back to the job either...I mean nothing and have made absolutely no difference whatsoever!)

Actually, shouldn't I have written 'nuffink'?

Of course English is so well-known for the clear links between spelling and pronounciation! e.g read, daughter,colour...to pick a few off the top of my head.

And how on earth do RP speakers ever manage to spell any word with a post-vocalic r in it correctly if we rely so much on hearing words to be able to spell them?!!!

Linguistic features like glottal stops are not a 'lazy' use of language, they are simply a non-standard form.

MillyR and anyone who thinks that paying for a private education means children will speak "properly" is under an illusion. Both my DSs went to good independent schools. Neither DH or I speak with much of an accent - I have a slight north east "lilt" and DH "emigrated" from the south. However, DS1 seems to slip from RP ish to "street" depending on who he is talking to and is clever at slipping from one to another. He has just started Uni in London so I imagine his accent will now take that into account. DS2 however seems to wish he had been born a chav and (to our ears) speaks terribly at the moment. He says aye instead of yes and uses other Geordie slang. It drives is MAD. The difference between my two is that DS1 is aware that you need to speak differently in different situations and to different people. We all do that. However my worry is the DS2 will stick with his new accent and I agree with OPs that it really can be a disadvantage.

I suppose you could just about get away with saying 'anyfink' is part of the SE accent, my 1st husband was from London and always used 'f' instead of 'th', he just couldn't pronounce it, but I do think a teacher should make a bit of an effort. That's nearly as annoying as 'aks' instead of 'ask', which makes me homicidal! lol

Hear hear Beveridge.Why do some posters believe that for them to speak with their naturally-formed accent, which requires no effort whatsoever, is acceptable whereas for other people it's 'lazy'. Listen to yourselves.

(I do feel sorry for the poor privately-educated lad who's trying to fit in with his Geordie environment. Of course he knows how to change his linguistic register in different circumstances - we all do it, often sub-consciously - but I bet he knows precisely how much his Ant 'n Dec pronunciation riles his dear mama )

Morocco your post at 22.07 last night. They do actually teach children to write using phonics. So reception children focus on learning sounds and so write things like:

'ar yu having a gud tym' for 'are you having a good time'

They only focus on spelling later and I believe that comes as they learn to read and are taught the rules (like silent 'e' etc) and also learn the words that don't sound as they are spelt.

So an infant school teacher not pronouncing words properly is a big deal.

It is not just about other people, it is about someone doing their job whicn involves teaching young people through the spoken word, training young people how to act in a work environment and setting an example. How I talk in my own time is my own business but when I am teaching it is different. I would be equally unimpressed if anyone else who was paid to talk and train others for a living did not take care with their use of the spoken word.

YANBU. It might be OK in, say, a physics teacher at secondary school where they are only teaching a pupil for a few hours a week, but in somebody who is teaching at primary school and passing on language skills I think this is unacceptable.

Alright for a secondary teacher?

I once had a cockney French supply teacher, who actually spoke French with a cockney accent. She was hilarious: J'arreyvarai a la bonk. We spent every lesson wetting ourselves laughing and I still can't quite fathom how on earth she passed her French teacher exams. I'd perhaps put it down to seducing the invigilator (hence her arriving at the 'bonk') but she wasn't exactly your average femme fatale either!

YANBU - it's nothing to do with her accent, class or anything else. There is no f or k in 'anything' so those letters shouldn't be pronounced.
I'm from Scotland where some people pronounce the letter J as Jigh instead of Jay. My Mum complained to the school when my primary teacher taught us this pronunciation. A small child should be able to trust his or her teacher's knowledge.

There is a poem by Tom Leonard called Unrelated Incidents it is on the GCSE syllabus and is about snobbery about local/regional accents-I'd do a link but dont know how.The important thing is not the teacher's prononciation of 'th' but her interaction and enthusiasm with her class.By the way I have famuly from South London and 'anyfink'would be the norm I fear.