to be miffed that dd2's teacher says 'anyfink'?

[kittywise]

dd2 came home the other day saying that her teacher had said 'anyfink' and 'that wasn't right was it'?

I said that it wasn't right.

She's a primary school teacher fhs. She should be able to pronounce words properly

balls!!
I'm oxbridge with a very broad norn iron accent
tis exactly the same

I teach and have a northern accent, the students do notice it. Apparantly when I am annoyed I get very northern. I do try however to speak correctly in the classroom as I am a role model. I think this is even more important at promary level.

Miffed is about right, it implies a tad disappointed, not overly annoyed.

I also have a lisp, but I think that shows that having a speech impediment ( even a minor one) need not make you shy or mean you keep quiet.

I dont think people assume I am thick because of my accent, they do assume I am common and poor which is probably quite close to the mark.

I had a teacher who said "yurs" instead of "years", that annoys me too. Is that an accent too? I recently heard it again from a fellow interviewee who got the job as a maths teacher.

zebramummy:
"send your child for interview at an Oxbridge college, or with any of the big City instutiions, and see how far they get speaking like that......" .... oh, you'd be so surprised - whether those whom I came across got in though positive discrimination i cannot tell, though that's another thread!!!

No way. I got into Oxford with a Sheffield accent in 1992. Ok, so it wasn't a really thick/strong accent but I didn't go to private school so didn't have 'proper' pronunciation (or etiquette!). I really don't think they take much notice of any pos disc as long as you're clever enough and have the right qualities so that's a little mean - and completely incorrect and misleading - I think!

The point is that if the teacher pronounces the words correctly, the children will learn to spell them correctly even if the teacher and/or kids have a regional accent.

Why is it tosh?

A bit rich from someone who has just posted that someone pronouncing 'anything' as 'anyfink' is a deriliction of their duty to "show others the correct way to do things" when pronunciation is not one of those specific things.

Unless you would like to prove it is part of a teacher's job description to pronounce everything in a certain way? Am happy to be corrected on this.

There are a lot of excellent teachers in this country for whom English is not their first language. You would be on VERY dangerous ground to object to mis-pronunciation in a case like that.

Why do you think it acceptable in a case like this?

As long as the teacher is teaching the word's spelling correctly, there is nothing wrong here.

You are just making yourself look like an insufferable snob.

dearie me a lot of knickers in twists tonight

why on earth is pronouncing a word 'anyfink' such a drama? do you not understand the word? do other people not pronounce it that way? pmsl at the idea we have to speak as we write - go on - have a go at reading out a few of the words in my post for a start - or look at your kids spellings lists again. English is notorious for crappy spelling that doesn't match the way it's spoken.

go on admit it - it's a working class pronunciation so your teacher might not be - shock - posh. or then again, she might be dead posh and slumming it

(innit is becoming universal question tag imo - even my two year old says it and she's never been near the estuary )

Being working class not does prevent you from pronouncing the th sound. I am working class and don't say anyfink. It is sloppy, if my students drop their hs or say anyfink I would correct them as would most other teachers in my school.

pinkx4 - i was actually quoting a pp and disagreeing with what was written based on my own experience. i know the score wrt oxbridge entry criteria etc. was just joking about the positive discrimination and was thinking more about what i encountered during my years in the city

Oh, re the Oxbridge comment. My dh was top in the country for his subject at GCSE and A Level. He hadn't even heard of the phrase "Oxbridge" until his teacher told dmil that he was Oxbridge material.

Anyway, dh was interviewed at an Oxbrdge College, without even wearing a suit. He had a scouse accent at the time. Got in without a problem. So, isn't always the case.

pls untwist all knickers re oxbridge comment - in any case, i was not the op re: the comment so pls do not twang like a rubberband in this direction!

sorry kate bush

a quick google on features of estuary english gives you links such as these for those interested in what sociolinguists have to say on the subject
hth

books.google.co.uk/books?id=DijoDGTBEjwC&pg=PA2&dq=features+of+estuary+english#v=onepage&q=features% 20of%20estuary%20english&f=false

I am working class, not posh,and a teacher and had a place at 'oxbridge' which I did not accept.... but I don't say anyfink...

another common working class person here who offered a place at Oxford. I have never said anyfink though, maybe that is why they liked me.

pospy I love you.

love you too mwaaa

Zebramummy:

Sorry, misunderstood completely. Unborn DD4 squiggling like mad as I write - very distracting! (And Oxford didn't prepare me for THAT even if it did improve my accent slightly so that I could make myself understood! Ok, so my Middle English tutor thought my northern straight talk approach with accent rather amusing.) Sorry, long ago memory interruption was completely off the thread.

I was thinking (having been an English teacher at 11-18) that at primary school level you could have a really good chat about how our rather marvellous language doesn't translate onto paper very easily and how that has come about. Language changes and all that but how, in order for others to understand us, we have to write and spell in a certain way. It could be a really fun lesson getting them to write as they speak and then asking their friends to read it out loud to see if it works. Obviously, accent could then be discussed in relation to sound and spelling points made. They could even ask their (grand)parent(s) about language change over their lifetime as homework. There, a brief lesson plan!

The main point I would make is that you can still speak properly and retain accent (and identity - important for some) just by not changing the letters within words but simply changing the sound of those letters.

I don't say anyfink either!

But I am under no illusions that some things I do say are sneered upon by people who think they are better than me because they have a more RP accent than I do.

Which is why my knickers are in a twist at this thread.

"aren't sneered upon"

i also see what balloonslayer issaying too....

zebramummy leaves the air raid shelter

particularly interested in a comment I found while googling about a cockney teacher who lost his job in 1974 cos his accent wasn't appropriate. plus ca change.

can't say I know a great deal about this cos it's been a while since i got the linguistics books out, but the change from 'anything' the 'anyfink' is a th -> v change. this is a feature of cockney english. cockney is traditionally associated with working class londoners? therefore the th ->v change is one sign of working class origins. hence my comment on why some people seem to get their knickers in a twist.

estuary english is also being adopted by posh kids who want to sound 'street'. it's also more an accent of young people, so older people tut tut because the young are never right and never do things like the good old days blah blah. I always though estuary english was a bastardisation of cockney but without the grammar changes - not sure that is true but someone else on here will know

interesting bedtime reading

www.eriding.net/amoore/lang/joanna-ryfa-estuary.pdf

Argh! I've just spoken to DD2 (12) about this. 'Oh yes', she said, 'That's just like half the children in my class who try to tell me that the letter H is pronounced 'haitch'. The problem is Mum, one of the teachers, Mrs G, says they're right!'

I've just told DD that if Mrs G tries to insist that she uses the term 'haitch' again then she should tell her no and ask her to speak to Mum, who will gladly explain that she isn't correct in this case.

The same goes for the teachers who insist that DC say 'Pardon?' and not 'What?'. It bugs me.