To expect someone not to let their three dogs jump all over me

[8oreighty]

and "playbite" my arms?!!! I was on a rural path...fair enough, but I think people should control their dogs...I got muddy footprints all over me. It is also kind of scary if you don't know the dogs. There were two women with 3 dogs, not even an apology. Even when I said angrily, "please can you get your dogs off me". That's just not on - is it?

Oh yes I agree.

I've owned a dog, and been bitten by someone else's dog. I'm not afraid of dogs just of some eejits who don't know how to act responsibly or, frankly, politely as evidenced by the OP.

I know and its unfortunate these dog owners get more press than the good owners which casts a shaddow on the resonsible dog owners who keep their dog on a lead when on streets ect.
if my dog was to jump up at anyone i would feel so embarased i would apolagise and the dog would go on a lead. but i feel smacking/kicking/punching any dog is counter productive it just shows that dog that humans are aggressive, and to be feared. and we all know animals can attack out of fear.

I think, that on this thread, where people have recommended a particular course of action they've not meant to imply that it's your responsibility - or to imply that any injury would be your fault for not reacting that way. They've just offered advise on the best way, in a given situation, to minimise risk to your child.

I hate hate hate the way these threads always go. there are dangerous stupid dog owners. in exactly the same way as there are dangerous stupid car-owners/drivers. but you never get the same approbium heaped on "car-owners". (despite the fact, cliche though it is that you're far more likely to end up injured because of the dangerous/stupid car owners.) nor do you get the same ott sledge-hammer type suggestions.

I also feel annoyed when people who don't know dogs offer solutions (like keeping them on leads) and then refuse to listen to or respond to people who do know dogs when they challenge the usefulness of such solutions. not letting dogs off lead would make things worse. I don;t say that out of self-interest. I say that because, like, I assume all of us, I don't want an increase in the number of poorly-exercised potentially dangerous dogs.(I have children too!)

and on a separate note - saggars quote from the DDA vindicates what I expected to be the case re the law - "Under the Dangerous Dogs Act a person only has to have 'reasonable apprehension' " reasonable apprehension. not just apprehension.

this article seems fair and rational.

"don't forget that we are animals ourselves."

Speak for yourself

I am in bed

'LittleMissMummy - I'm involved in a campaign to help staffies, so many of whom are thrown out and end up dying in pounds here in the UK. May I ask if your reservation about going to your family members home is because they have a Staffie or would you feel like this about any breed? Nothing personal, I am just trying to get "the bigger picture" to understand why people feel as they do about the breed.'

Valhala - I dont feel like this towards all breeds of dog. I mean my sister has a dog (sorry dont know what kind it is - Its a sort of golden/brown colour, not a lab, not really sure to be honest!), she has had it for about 5 yrs and I think I have only ever heard it bark once! Its soooo shy as it came from a bad home previously (nasty owners). I dont have a problem taking my DD to her house, mind you I would never leave DD alone in the room with the dog. Although its a really quiet, obedient, shy dog, you cant ever be 100% sure. My friend has 2 yorkshire terriers and although they can be quite snappy sometimes, it wouldn't stop me from going to visit him but again I would never leave DD in the room with them or let her stroke them - as they can snap!.

The problem I have with my counsins staffie is that I have heard stories on the news recently (well within the past couple of years) about fatal attacks on babies and children by both staffies and rottweilers. I know not all dogs are like that but I personally just wouldnt take the risk. I also get nervous around large dogs - I think its because they look so big and strong compared to the little ones.

But I stand by my previous comments - I'd do what I had to to protect me and my family if I felt a dog was being threatening.

I like dogs and have always had them.

I am not afraid of dogs but do not think they are all safe either.

My children are very confident around dogs but I do not allow them to pet unknown animals.

I was at the seaside with my LOs this summer. I was walking along the prom with my toddler in his buggy. A HUGE dog came up and stuck his face in my child's buggy. My child was totally unphased by this and not upset at all. I could see the dog was friendly so didnt freak out

BUT

The owner just sat back in her deckchair and said 'oh he always does that with children. He knows they have food'

FFS! What if my DC was terrified or allergic? What if he and I freaked and the dog freaked too and started biting (as freaked dogs do?)

This owner thought it was ok to allow her dog to approach small children in order to beg for or steal food.

Its not ok is it?

I hate dog owners like this. I am aware that not everyone likes dogs. I wish that not so many children were terrified of them, this is sad and makes life difficult for them.

But owners like this dont exactly help the situation.

I also live in East London and I find it very sad that the only dogs you see are staffies or staffie x s. They are generally owned by people who dont like dogs as such but want to have a staffie. This means they dont know much about dogs and it bloody shows.

yes chegirl i agree with you and it's sad but true.

Very timely thread for me, we're picking up a 16 week puppy tomorrow. Myself and another friend have both made the decision to get puppies this week after a good few years of thinking about it in both cases. She's getting a retriever pup and the breeder said to her to always remember that a dog is basically a wolf in a fluffy coat to hammer home the necessity of treating it like a dog and not a human as she's seen some people do .

We live round the corner from woods and luckily the majority of people are very responsible when walking their dogs but you do get the odd one. I would not have been at all impressed in the OP's situation and can not stand dogs jumping up at me. Our dog is coming tomorrow and on Wednesday we're off to Puppy classes, I am determined I will have a well trained dog and will always always be aware that other out walking want to be left in peace .

Another friend has a one year old dog who jumps up at people all the time, it takes all my will power not to stand there screaming and flapping my arms so goodness knows what it must be like for a child. She takes it up to the school and it jumps up at passing children, she's quite strong and although friend tries to stop her she can't really. How someone hasn't complained I don't know, I most certainly would have if I didn't know her. She is improving with time but I think she's utterly and completely irresponsible not have sorted this way before now and I find it quite depressing that she can be like this.

congrates on the puppy

has your pup had both her injections before coming to you? mine only had the one, so i had to wait another couple of weeks before i took her out

wynken - with many dogs it takes more than a year - even with the best will in the world, and even doing everything "by the book" to train them not to jump up. so you may be being harsh in your appraisal that she's irresponsible not to have sorted it out "way before now" (you also may not - it depends whether she's actually making a proper daily effort to train it)You'd not, however, be harsh for critising her for taking it to the school gate without taking adequate steps to stop it jumping (mainly by keeping it well away from kids).

By MillyMollyMoo
"don't forget that we are animals ourselves."

Speak for yourself

So, in what way are you not an animal?

She's had both injections so no doubt by Monday there will be a "I need help with my puppy" thread about something from me! We are lucky to have our neighbour who came with us to choose her and is totally smitten. She's always had dogs and has spent the last few days training us! Also the puppy class lady has said to call if any problems and the breeder is great and will also be on hand if needed.

Hatwoman, I know she is still young and to be fair she has calmed down the last few weeks but watching from the outside as myself and other friend have been doing there has been a real inconsistecy in how she has been dealing with her and I do feel this could have been sorted out much earlier. A lot of the time she would just give up and jump all over everyone with no real effort to stop her. The problem was they got her at a time they couldn't commit properly to her training because of illness but wanted to get her to cheer up their DD.

She said to me after that she had no idea how hard having a puppy and I think it was a shock for her at a difficult time and training just didn't happen so she's now got herself in the situation where she tries to go out when there are no other dog walkers around as they complain about her jumping. I did try to warn her what it would be like with a small lab puppy as I had seen others shortly before, I also told her that she needed to sort insurance but she didn't get round to it until after the dog had eaten a sock and needed a very expensive op. All a bit sad really.

yes wynken - consistency is really important. It's hard too - believe me. One of the really difficult things (and part of why the school gate is such a minefield) is that, you need the co-operation of other people who want to make a fuss of them. When mine was a cute puppy that everyone wanted to make a fuss of I started to feel like a stuck record: "Of course you can stroke him but we're trying to teach him not to jump, so could I ask you, if he does jump up to move away from him and ignore him". and you would not belive how many people COMPLETELY ignore you. tbh children don't - they listen and do as they're told but adults say "oh I don;t mind" and it's very hard to respond to that in the way you want - "well I do and toddlers and old ladies and lots of other people will if I don't succeed in teaching him this so if you want to stroke my dog could you PLEASE do what I just asked you to do". I never quite had the guts to say it but lost count of the number of times I thought it. I generally managed a toned down/jokey version that half-worked. all very tedious!
Hope you're enjoying your pup!

dogs hate muzzles. they find it deeply upsetting to be mzzled. that is why.

vast vast numbers of dogs are walked every day without muzzles and without incidents.

agree re: the cars thing. also horses are rather dangerous, but no-one gets upset about them.

there is no instinctual fear of horses - but there is of wolves...

LittleMissMummy thank you ever so much for your reply. It really helps to see the other side of the coin.

I am a supporter of the campaign group "Deed Not Breed", which is fighting for change in the DDA because it is the act, not the type of dog, which should in our opinion be addressed. If you were to visit the rescue I am involved with I would happily introduce you and your DC to some lovely, really affectionate Staffies whose only fault, if they have any, is to be too licky and bouncy. I could also invite you to meet a small, very sweet looking Jack Russell, who will play ball all day long and is the epitome of fun, but who has been known to snap where the Staffies just wouldn't dream of it.

Of course there are Staffies who will and sadly most of these have been abused in the past in my experience. I can honestly say though that these are in the minority (and I am involved in the rescue of hundreds of dogs per year). My own view is that certain dogs are more likely to make news for aggression because of the level of damage they cause. A large dog or a dog with a grip like a SBT will by design cause more harm. Hence the story is reported and hence people brand the breeds as bad dogs. If a Yorkie bites it will not make the papers as it doesn't cause the same amount of damage, hence Yorkies aren't widely feared by people unaccustomed to dogs.

I hope that your concerns won't put you off of visiting your family in future (lucky you to have nice family members nearby in the first place, you want to meet some of mine!!). Again, thank you for answering, you have been very helpful.

Valhala - your very welcome

I can totally see where you are coming from. If you work with these types of dogs everyday then you will have a good idea of their behaviour. However, to quote you -

'A large dog or a dog with a grip like a SBT will by design cause more harm. Hence the story is reported and hence people brand the breeds as bad dogs. If a Yorkie bites it will not make the papers as it doesn't cause the same amount of damage, hence Yorkies aren't widely feared by people unaccustomed to dogs.'

Thats exactly my reason for having this view. It's the level of aggression and damage that these kinds of dogs can cause.

If a child starts playing with a yorkie and the yorkie doesn't like it or for some reason feels it is being attacked then it may bite. The child will scream and you can intervene as quickly as you can. If the same thing was to happen with a staffie or a rottwiller (or a similiar type of dog), I don't believe that there would be time to intervene.

And thats a risk I just would never take.

Thank you very much for your invite! However as dd is only 4 months old she probably wouldn't even know what is going on! Even so when she is a bit bigger, I think we'll probably just take her to the zoo .

Glad my post was helpful to you!

My father in law said to one woman with an errant canine, "if it does that again, I'll rip its head off and shit down its neck" very bad-but also strangely funny heehee! My twins are terrified of dogs and friends who are owners ALWAYS say they're just saying hello, stroke the dog and it'll leave you alone - NO KEEP YOUR ANIMALS AWAY FROM MY KIDS!!