to think that 'counselling' in any of its myriad guises is by and large a bloody waste of time?

[moondog]

At best a self-indulgence, at worst positively damaging.

I find it hard to imagine circumstances in which counselling would benefit me.

The two occasions on which the possibilty has been mooted were:

1)losing dh#1 in traumatic circumstances - in that situation it was the support of my friends I needed, & it was a slow process which I think I actually needed to go through. I was numb for a bit, then furious, then I decided I was fine, then I realised that people who are 'fine' don't behave as self-destructively as I did for a bit.

& then ultimately, I was as OK about it as I'll ever be. Occasionally I get a bit maudlin over a bottle of wine with an old friend.

& 2) ante-natal depression with dd1. Well - once I was diagnosed with AND, at 6 months pg, I found myself on an 18 month waiting list for counselling for my (hitherto undiagnosed, & probably quite genuine) PTSD after ds's birth. So it's a bloody good job I felt fine the minute dd1 was born - &, knowing that, sailed through another difficult pregnancy with dd2.

So, on the available evidence, I, personally, am best left to sort myself out.

I'm not sure that it's reasonable to argue from that that ALL counselling is a waste of time - that seems rather arrogant to me. Hmmm. But I think quite a lot of it is, tbh.

MoonlightMcK - am at your NLP friend! Outrageous. Not my experience of it, I can assure you.

However - I do agree that a lot of nutters needy people are drawn to becoming counsellors/therapists - it's a common feature among several different types of therapy (for e.g. when I was training in therapeutic massage, about 65% of the class had some kind of long-term back problem; this happens in osteopathy training as well) and from what I've heard (from a psychiatrist) happens a lot in psychiatry too.

Good training programmes will weed out the dangerous/needy prospective counsellors - bad training programmes might take their money and pass them. This is a problem and why the field still needs better regulation (preferably statutory). You should still be able to fail an unsuitable candidate on the grounds of clinical competency, regardless of their knowledge and ability to pass tests/exams.

hambler How much "counselling/therapy" have you had? And in what sized blocks? The reason I ask is that the NHS claim to be able to "treat" in 6 sessions which is clearly utter bollocks.

I myself was taken in by a psychiatric team (incl. nurses, psychiatrists and clinical psychologists) in March 2003. I just got the all-clear from that team in the last few months and have been for the best part of that time seen on a weekly basis. For the first 18 months by one person and for the remainder by another. If you have a lot of deep-rooted issues you need time and regular sessions.

Short, un-fulfilling bursts of therapy are perhaps not helpful.

Taking the knowledge that I've learned during my process I would never visit a "self-certified/mail-order/3-month course" therapist - I could analyse myself in an instant! I don't think these people can bring much to the table. This is why I earlier suggested that you've lumped all therapy together without differentiating between quite different streams.

I also rate a clinical psychologist over a psychiatrist - the psychologist has spent 5/6 years studying how the brain works, the connections we make and how to un-tie the patterns. The psychiatrist does of course study these things, but they just write the prescriptions. This might be a crap analogy, but for me it's like the vet versus the blacksmith. The vet is the one with the 5 years at university, but the blacksmith is the one day-in, day-out who looks at horses feet, so if I've got a problem with my horse's foot... I ask the blacksmith!

I don't understand why people are so sniffy about counselling/therapy/help with mental health issues. If you break your leg, it's probably going to heal on its own eventually but it might knit back together in a dodgy way and you are much more likely to be permanently disabled by it. So you get medical help to fix it properly and I can't see how mental health issues are any different.

The disdain so many people have for getting help with mental issues is largely responsible for the shame that so many feel when they suffer with them and the knock on consequences of that (avoiding seeking help and/or not taking prescribed meds) can be devastating. It makes me really cross.

I think a very real consequence of 'counselling' is that it often blames a painful experiences on the way that a person handles and deals with something rather than directing it at the person/people who 'caused' it.

I'm having a terrible time at the moment, trying to get some halfway decen provision for my disabled ds, but when I challenge the authorities they tell me my anger is because I'm having trouble dealing with the dx. My keyworker wants me to make an appointment with her to 'talk through my issues and emotions'!

In this case counselling is most definately dangerous because it detracts from the real problem and justifies continued neglect of my ds.

Counselling saved my marriage. We just had a bit of a good old fashioned Relate - a woman who didn't say huge amounts, but effectively refereed our arguments and mediated when the shit had well and truly hit the fan and we were barely able to be in the same room together. Worked a treat. I'd recommend it to anyone.

"I think a very real consequence of 'counselling' is that it often blames a painful experiences on the way that a person handles and deals with something rather than directing it at the person/people who 'caused' it"

Counselling is indeed all about how you deal with situations. But it's not about blame. You may have entirely justified reasons for being angry at someone else and a (good) counsellor won't dream of telling you that you're wrong to feel that way. Anger's just as valid an emotion as any other.

What's important is what you (and that's a general "you" rather than a specific one) do with that anger. A crucial turning point for many people in abusive relationships is when their fear and confusion over how they're being treated changes into anger. That can be the moment when they decide to change things for the better.

Or, anger can turn inwards into resentment and bitterness which does no-one any favours. Again, I'm talking generally now rather than specifically about your situation.

moondog what grounds are you basing your OP on?

There is such a range of approaches and background theories to 'counselling' that to lump it all together and say it's rubbish is just plain daft.

Hambler - I found your comment that the therapies you'd tried were all 'pants' to be very upsetting, as I am at the point of starting a psychotherapy group in the hopes of beating my depression.

Being told that therapy wouldn't work and was pants made me feel utter despair - that I would either be on antidepressants for the rest of my life - and yes, they have saved my life, because I was suicidal when I went on them - which is why I want to deal with the depression, so that I can come off the antidepressants without being afraid that I'll end up suicidal again.

I did feel that your statement (not you yourself) was insensitive in the context, and could have been expressed better - instead of generalising that they were all pants, perhaps you could have said that none of them worked for you.

However, I do apologise for upsetting you by my blunt response to your blunt statement.