to think that 'counselling' in any of its myriad guises is by and large a bloody waste of time?

[moondog]

At best a self-indulgence, at worst positively damaging.

Being full of yourself and your abilities would be the worst place to start, absolutely.

I have been put off counselling by a very mad counsellor. I was drawn to her because she 'specialised' and understood the situation. But what actually happened was dreadful. Although I kind of orchestrated the whole situation having that kind of counsellor, I did do it expecting better things, and I am now very worried about counselling again in case it goes wrong...again.

It's a shame the OP seems unable to distinguish between a counsellor who did a mail-order programme from the University of Toilet and a psychiatrist (medical doctor able to prescripe drugs) and a psychologist (degree + postgrad).

I think there is some value in the "inner-child" thing. An awful lot of emotional problems have their roots in experiences from childhood. Pivotal situations experienced as a child are inevitably seen through a child's eyes and with a child's limited and flawed understanding.

If you can then objectively re-visit those events and reappraise them with an adult's understanding it can look very different. The counsellor I saw did a bit of this with me but not in a "give your inner-child a hug" way. It was more "If you were an adult bystander there at that time, and you saw the you-as-a-child there experiencing all that, what would you do for that child to make them feel better about what was happening?" The inevitable answer would likely be "Give 'em a hug and tell them it's not their fault".

The recognition that the situation was not the fault of the child is what's important; the virtual hug is just a means to help you realise that for yourself. At least, that's how it seems to me.

snorbs I've dealt with the inner child in much the same way as you've been taught, i.e., "what would you, as an adult, do for/to this child?"

I do think the whole "inner-child" thing though is very "non-British" - what with our stiff upper lips, stoical manners et al. It's a very "American" concept I feel and it took me a good 6 months to be able to even entertain the idea of discussing it without smirking or thinking "oh how utterly ridiculous"!

that's similar to the NLP concept of going back in your own "time line" to the child you were and viewing the situation as the adult you are now; and then "re-parenting" the child you were by, pretty much, giving the child you were a hug and telling them it's not their fault. Amazing how much difference it can make though...

So hambler - if it is all 'pants' as you say, should I stay on antidepressants for the rest of my life, and accept that I will feel numb forever, or shall I just top myself now?

What a stupid and insensitive thing to say on a thread that, by its very nature, will attract people who are vulnerable and hurting!!!!!

I am neither stupid nor insensitive so cut the insults.

How do you know I am not vulnerable and hurting?

All I have said is I have tried lots of types of counselling ( HINT..may be vulnerable and hurting) and found them all to be pants. That's my opinion. Don't call me stupid.

PS antidepressant drugs saved my life

she didn't call you stupid and insensitive, she said your comment was stupid and insensitive - 2 separate things.

ok my point still stands

at least you have listed the ones you tried, hambler, and they obviously didn't work out for you - unlike some of the more blanket statements (like the OP's) ruling ALL forms of counselling as "pants".

Don't tar them all with the same brush though - there are other forms of counselling that might actually work for you, were you prepared to give it another go.

My preference is NLP - not as life coaching,but as therapeutic counselling, because it has the advantage that you DON'T need to endlessly talk about situations that are extremely painful, but can deal with them in a "closed box" sort of way - and it can be extremely effective, as I know.

thumbwitch you are absolutely right and I would never dissuade anyone from seeking counseling and I know some for whom it has been life changing.

One of the therapists I saw was on the recommendation of a friend who felt her life was transformed by seeing this particular counsellor. My experience with same counsellor was to be plunged into an even deeper depression.

I merely added my comment as my own experience to date. That's all any of us can do really.

I objected to my opinion/experience being attacked and labelled stupid/ insensitive.

I was just stating MY EXPERIENCE (5 counsellors of three types) .Ii was not claiming it was the Word Of God.

Apologies if it was a bit abrupt

I have just recounted and have had experience of SEVEN professional counsellors of various kinds

It's also true that sometimes (as other posters have mentioned) counselling will not help an unhappy person because his/her unhappiness is a perfectly understandable and healthy reaction to something awful, and the only thing that will fix the unhappiness is either time (as with physical injuries) or resolving the awfulness (having a bully stopped from bullying the person, for example).
My mother was on ADs and tranquilisers for a while, and very adamant that she didn't want any kind of 'talking cure' and I think she was right. She wanted to be temporarily anaesthatized from a very stressful situation which was going to be solved but which was taking time to solve, and being a very reserved person, would have found counselling a humiliating waste of time.
She's fine now and has been ever since the problem was solved.

I would be dead if it were not for my counsellor, to whom I went for about 2 years. I haven't seen her for 4 years now, but keep in touch indirectly. I have a lot to be grateful to her for.

IME, you get out what you put in. If you're not prepared to look at yourself honestly, then you'll probably get less out of it than if you are.

I know a guy who desperately needs some sort of counselling. He says he has spent most of his life in counselling; what he means is that he goes along for a few weeks and when it starts getting a bit hard he stops going. Then some years later when things get to a crux again, he'll see someone else for about 3 weeks and run away again. He won't look at himself so he thinks counselling/talking therapy of any sort is rubbish. Strange, that.

crikey, hambler - that is quite a lot!

SGB - you are absolutely right as well.

YABU!!!!!! Ok it doesnt work for some but for others, myself included, it is life changing. It can also spare people from a life time of anti depressant medication and is therefore NHS cash saving!

My councilor turned out just to be someone usefuk I could air my thoughts to and realise for myself how bloody stupid I could be and that I couldnt please everyone else all of the time! 8 years later I have since had ZERO, yes count them ZERO recurances of depression that has previously had me sitting in a corner and uncontrollably balling my eyes out for weeks on end! THANK GOD for them!!!!

I was previously of the 'counselling is crap get out and go for a run' brigade. I was then involved in a large scale event that killed a number of people, very nearly including me, and traumatised a lot more.

I was sent for counselling and at the outset I asked how long it would take to sort me out(ie to enable me to resume my previous day to day life). I was told 6 weeks. It took 2 years. It has enabled me to go on with my life when others who didn't have access to counselling have lost their job, relationships, almost ceased to function.

SolidGoldBrass Sat 19-Sep-09 21:45:51 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

"It's also true that sometimes (as other posters have mentioned) counselling will not help an unhappy person because his/her unhappiness is a perfectly understandable and healthy reaction to something awful, and the only thing that will fix the unhappiness is either time (as with physical injuries) or resolving the awfulness (having a bully stopped from bullying the person, for example)."

Or sometimes it can work the other way round. It was the thing that really got through to dd when the CAHMS team said quite openly, 'right we can't solve your problem, because you know and we know that you have got this disability and that it can't be cured; what we can do is help you live with it'.

ds's friend who was bereaved also needed counselling despite the naturalness of his reaction: however natural and healthy your anger is, you just can't go round knocking other children down

but it all depends on the situation

but I think antidepressants often work better in a situation like the one described by SGB where the situation is eventually going to be resolved

whereas counselling and CBT might work better with situations that everybody knows can't be resolved

I used to work for a counselling charity and some of the people who applied for training were total loons. There were a lot of people who thought that they would make fantastic counsellers because they had loads of problems. They scared me.

But there were also a lot of fantastic people (some of whom had been through a lot of life stuff) who were realistic,down to earth and dedicated. I am certain these people did an awful lot of good and helped many people in crisis.

My SIL was a 'counsellor' (bloody hell is it an O or and E?) and she made my hair curl. Totally untrained, unprofessional and had no boundaries. She was dangerous.

How can all counselling be crap and self indulgent?

When my DD died who was I supposed to talk to? My OH who was covered in his own grief? My kids? My family who had no clue about what I had seen and how could I share those things with them? How could I put those images in their heads?

I needed to talk about the horrors that had happened to DD, about the things I had to see, the pain and the guilt and the utter desperation I felt. How could I tell a friend or family member that I wanted to go with her?

Should I have sucked it up and got on with it? Bollocks to that. I needed to talk to someone. It didnt bring her back but at least I could get some of the rage out.

I both agree and disagree with the OP.

I think the difference can be in whether counselling is given or received and who controls the output.

If counselling is received, it can be very beneficial indeed. I have received counselling for various problems and I usually get it from MN. I am far to argumentative and questioning to benefit from any imposed/given counselling and I suspect the OP is too.

Freud's theories have been largely discredited, but the benefits of his therapy have not. A scientifically proven methodology is not always essential in order to measure the outcome.

CBT can also be very beneficial for some people. However, it is extremely harmful to insist on this therapy for someone for whom it is not suitable. I had a nutter of a colleague once who taught NLP. She measured her success by how many people cried in her group sessions . I would have been one of them I can assure you, but not for the reasons she'd have thought.

I have a friend with anorexia who has been through a billion different counselling methods and I am so cross that not one of them has recognised that she is just too damn awkward for counselling. The latest was 'inner child' and we used to get drunk together whilst I give her counselling for her counselling. So guess what happened to her?

She became an art therapist

personally I don't like the term counselling, I prefer to say therapist. Counselling has negative connotations.

Most of the research about any type of therapy indicates that it's the quality of the therapeutic relationship rather than the type of therapy itself. This is what produces the most significant change in a person who seeks therapy, so it's v important to find the right fit as others have said and to make sure they are properly regulated and supervised, I can't emphasise the importance of this enough.

Also the general public seem to have this notion that "counselling" is something that's done to you. It's actually a collaborative process with the therapist acting as facilitator of change and reflection. I always tell people at the beginning of CBT it's going to be hard work, it's a collaborative process with the emphasis on them developing the tools to help themselves. All to often people drop out after a few sessions saying it's doing them no good/making them worse because this phantom "counselling" wand hasn't worked it's magic.

If you're not committed it won't work which is why it's pointless pursuing therapy with individuals who aren't fully engaged or committed. And therapy, especially at first, is painful. Even CBT, when devloping a formulation people find it v hard to acknowledge their early life experiences, core beliefs and assumptions.

Cory: I'm not denying that it can be helpful, just not in every case.

Minx this sounds really silly, but I hate the term, "therapist".

My mind always puts a space between the "e" and the "r". Much prefer "counsellor" and don't see what's negative about it.