to think it's high time somebody started an "I'm an imperfect mother" thread on here? Jeeez the number of perfectly perfect mums on here atm is quite scary

[emkana]

Okay I'll start

I'm not a perfect mother because

I lose my temper
I let them watch x factor and the cube on a Saturday night, and don't even read them a bedtime story after
I've taken them out of school for holidays

it doesn't sound as though you are the sort of parent children would be frightened of hatesponge. Whic is more food for thought for me.

I suppose when it comes to things I have a visceral strong moral reaction to eprsonally - like hitting and terrifying children and screaming in their faces etc - I have a black-and-white "this is wrong" view. I do feel that some things are just wrong and nobody should ever do them, and if you do do them, you regret it and try not to do it again. I think the spirit of cameraderie and trivialisation on this thread erodes that. It's appropriate for slovenly parenting in small ways. It's not appropriate for what I see as more serious mistakes.

Well perhaps the fact I felt bad about it(the swearing anyway) means Social Services can be kept at bay for now...
I'm not bragging/boasting about it nor am I making excuse. Looking after 2 under 3's for 12 hours a day on your tod can be tough going.

I think that's the probelme with threads like this though. That some people's idea of normal is v. different from others.

I remember a childminder saying to me "ooh she was so uptight - as if it matters if the kids don't have veg with the meal".

And I thought "well actually..."

tbh I think the fact that you felt bad about it it IS a good thing

sounds horrible but when I do something awful to one of my children I feel bad about it and I generally manage not to do it again, so far

it's not that I want us all to go around weeping and flogging ourselves - not at all

but as I keep saying (I am a bore, I know) threads like this one encourage a sort of cosy "we all do it really" feeling which doesn't and shouldn't apply to some of the more extreme things people have posted, IMO

I am one for black-and-white thinking and am like a dog with a bone though, I know this

I first raised my objections to some posts early in this thread because I was uncomfortable with the juxtaposition of posts about cereal for tea with those that spoke of smacking/swearing/non attendance at school due to parental alchohol intake.

On the estate in which dh grew up, these sorts of parental behaviours were commonplace, everyone did it, therefore it became the norm. People lived there, worked there, socialised only within their community, so never had their parenting questioned or debated. They never saw another way of behaving.
In a similar way,that is why I felt this thread was dangerous.We should not allow these behaviours to become the norm. People should be aware that no, not everyone does it, it is avoidable, and it's not bloody OK.

am also perturbed that people think I must regard myself as "perfect" parent

I am hopeless

PE kids, word packs, packed lunches, consent forms, parties

I don't know my arse from my elbow half the time

and I have to force myself to do playdates because I don't want the kids to be as antisocial as I am

I think it's a misunderstanding common on MN which needs addressing

my denigrating smacking/screaming etc doesn't mean that I think I am God's gift

we wouldn't get very far as a discussion forum on that criterion, would we?

See but this is what I mean. There are some standards that I personally regard as extremely important in parenting and stick to rigorously. Reading to/with my children every day (except Saturday), not putting them into childcare until they are at least two and a half, breastfeeding until they self-wean, co-sleeping... all things which I regard as essential, amongst many others. But on the other hand I do lose my temper sometimes, and while I never swear (and I mean never), I do shout badly sometimes. I'm not proud of it, but I do. But still I feel my children know that they are loved beyond measure and I think in many many ways I am a very good mother. Now if I come on here after an epsiode of getting extremely cross with the kids, do by all means tell me that shouting is not ideal, tell me that x y and z has helped you to deal with certain situations, but don't say "poor child". Because you really can't say that because you don't know me, you don't know my children's day to day life, it's a statement that goes way too far.

I'm not sure what you mean tbh emkana

For me there are:

Things that are absolutely wrong
Things that are undesirable
Things that are desirable
Things that are essential

I'll freely accept that everyone has different boundaries as to what fits into these categories

But the things that are absolutely wrong (beating your children, sexual abuse, starving them, or even being too drunk/hungover to take them to school) well, shouldn't anyone be entitled to say "poor child"? On a discussion forum? Because the good things don't just cancel out the bad, do they?

emkana most of those things you list as essential surely not so

you must have idealistic view ...

Well I dunno. Of course sexual abuse and physical violence and swearing at your children goes too far and can't be cancelled out by good parenting otherwise. But if a poster says she lost her temper, put her dd's toys into a black bin bag and then into the wheelie bin, shouted and threatened FC wouldn't come, then yes call it an overreaction, but does it really justify "poor little girl"? Going by your categories, I would say behaviour like that is undesirable, but not absolutely wrong, and if the child is otherwise loved, nurtured, well cared for, then she really is not a "poor little girl". And anyway, the spirit of MN is supposedly support, so even if somebody comes on here with something truly awful, wouldn't it be better to not wade in there with outright condemnation, to tread carefully in order to convince the parent in question that he/she can change, can be a different/better parent? Don't you just risk alienating and scaring them away otherwise, and miss a chance to make a difference?

well maybe not essential

but highly desirable

underlying basic care - love and security are essential
good parenting is then on a continuum. It takes a lot of work to move toward the top end
a lot of parents are lazy!

active abuse is different

I am mum who said I called dd a little shit a few million pages ago.
The incident in question was a very soul destroying, upsetting one off. It was down there with one of most shameful, dispiriting moments of motherhood. I lost my temper big time as we ALL do - yes ALL of us.
But I saw this thread as a a light hearted way to vent/confess.(Yes, yes I know you would never SWEAR, that puts me in an entirely different category).
helpful, confessional; a supportive, empathic thread - 'We're all imperfect hurrah'.
I said I drank copious amounts of wine. I meant a bottle or 2 of Pinos Gris on a Fri and Sat night with my lovely DH.
But now the likes of me are neglectful, abusive alcoholics revelling in their debauchery.
Why couldn't this thread be viewed in the way it was intended. NOT competitive bad parenting, NOT pride at terrible behaviour but a 'thank god we all do bad things and admit it'.
Am I being really naive?
The posts about MN changing, or the calibre of posters, changing make me cross. It's a thinly veiled 'there's a different class of mum on here now' isn't it?
There's a lot of cliquiness too.
I feel completely unsupported, embarassed and inadequate now. Thanks my dear MN sisters.

Funny, I thought the whole point of MN was that we all know we're imperfect.

See emanka, going on your list of desirable parental behaviour I would fail dismally! FF, own room at 3 months, never heard of BLW til MN, ft nursery at 5 months etc. But we did what worked for us and I don't consider my self to be a "bad" parent. I would consider swearing at dcs and getting too pissed to get up for the school run as nothing to be boasting about though!

No boyangill, the people who get so drunk they can't take their kids to school and find their kids in a freind dog bed are bad. The people who say that anyone who doesn't swear at their kids on a regular basis and call them names must think their perfect. I don't do these things and I'm not perfect, I try not to swear at all because I found it was becoming habbit, I was sweaing as part of conversation. BC.
Everyone has ifferent opinions as to what a light harted confession entails. I think having mounds of clean washing that never seems to get put away is a light harted thing to confess others might think it is shamefull. However I know I work 50hrs a week as a childminder and do an open uni course at night plus masses of paperwork so I know I'm not lazy, its just clean washing is low on my list of things to sort out, I still FEEL lazy though, just like you know you felt bad and that there was a big build up before hand, you didn't say you felt bad though (well I'm guessing you didn't) and like people said lightheartedly confessing to letting your kids watch too much tv but not feeling to bad cos we're not perfect is not the same as calling your kid a little shit then thinking oh well no ones perfect. If you had said but I feel terrible about it people might not have assumed you thought it was on a par with feeding your child cerial for dinner now and again

Oh come on! Calling your kid a little shit is not the worst thing in the world, not does it make you a shit mother.
We ALL have our dark days...today isn't promising to be great. Awful weather, irritable, cold ridden tots who are too listless to take anywhere, me with awful period pain and a headache and it's not even 10am yet.
One of my "organic mummy" mates who is normally the most patient, loving mother I know once called her 2 year old daughter a "little fucking bitch" because oin that particular day she just couldn't cope with it all.
It's called being human. Yes she felt bad but in the great scheme of things her daughter is and was totally unaffected.

'little fucking bitch'

I agree with Shiney. Calling a 2 year old a 'little fucking bitch' is not normal, and completely avoidable. Of course we all have bad days, I certainly do, but calling my daughter a fucking bitch is something I would never do. I wouldn't even feel the urge to say it, even at my most angry.
And feeding your child organic food cannot excuse shit parenting in other areas, and IMHO, calling a 2 yo a fucking bitch is shit parenting, no question.

Calling your daughter a little fucking bitch is not normal behaviour, sorry.

What an absolutely hideous thing to say to a small child. And how the hell can you assume that she is unaffected. Can you imagine the person who loves you most in the world calling you that when you are small. Would you out up with any of your loved ones (husbands, sisters, best friends, mums) calling you a little fucking bitch without being pissed off and hurt by it. Why do some people assume that children deserve less basic, fundamental respect and consideration than adults.

Being called names and being sworn at does hurt. I was called all manner of things as a child and it absolutely does stay with you. I can barely hear the c word without thinking back to being called an effing little c, a fat lazy , a useless when I was little.

I should remember to use question marks.

Greensleeves (Whingebob) has said a lot of good things about this. I have seen on other threads that she has had to endure a lot of stuff at the hands of her mother, I can fully sympathise after having a not disimilar upbringing (albeit with my gran) as her.

GetOrf, read your post How bloody awful

It does stay with you. I have chosen not to see my father in many years but I can still hear his vile tongue.