to think it's high time somebody started an "I'm an imperfect mother" thread on here? Jeeez the number of perfectly perfect mums on here atm is quite scary

[emkana]

Okay I'll start

I'm not a perfect mother because

I lose my temper
I let them watch x factor and the cube on a Saturday night, and don't even read them a bedtime story after
I've taken them out of school for holidays

I don't believe in hell or eternal damnation, but I would certainly think it inappropriate if you posted that scenario on a thread where people were sharing admissions about giving children sausage rolls and cutting minor corners

I don't wish to make you feel bad - but IMO smacking and shouting "for fuck's sake" to a small child is NOT in the same league as giving a crap tea every once in a while and shouldn't be brought up on a light-hearted thread where people are saying "haha, we all do it sometimes"

because we don't

and I don't think this sort of behaviour should be normalised

It makes no difference whether they are up at 6.30am or 7.10am. If only it was that simple. They are still faffing right up to the very last minute they have to leave. Some, most in fact, times just a raised voice to the effect of 'you have to leave right now' works. Sometimes it doesnt. I need to get them out of the house, and they are too heavy to carry out the front door.

And I do swear, a lot, in the course of conversation, as part of everyday vocab. At work I frequently have to deal with such levesl of stupidity and ignorance that I have to swear otherwise I would literally combust. The DC hear me swear often at home- normally at inanimate objects like when I hit my shin on an open drawer the other day and spent a good few minutes hopping round the room firing out a selection of expletives. I don't find swearing vile or disgusting, from adults that is. However, I hate hearing children swear, and mine know they are not even allowed to say bloody.

WhingeBobShitPants you are teetering on the cusp of smug.

Swearing in earshot, or even in a non-abusive manner towards children, isn't abusive. It's common.

In both senses of the word.

my best friend's dad Effed and Beed and C'd constantly, loudly and at length, about and towards anyone who was anywhere near him. I adored the man and so did his children. Agentler man you coulndn't hope to meet - but he was a builder, and builders are, um, 'salty'.

my dad never once swore at me, and my friends were petrified of him to the point where not one person visited me at home throughout high school.

Swearing does not = abuse. Abuse = abuse.

I think the people squealing that swearing is abuse are people who would have to be pushed to the point of blind rage before they will swear at their children - so they perceive people who do swear to be constantly at the point of blind rage. This is not the case. A good natured-but-weary "ohhhh you little fuckers" is a good deal less damaging that an icy cold, seethingly rage-filled hissed "you have made mummy very, very angry, children..."

Why are they not allowed to swear and you are?Its either right or wrong

colditz (greensleeves here btw) I have said more than once that screaming ffs AT children is what I object to

I swear a lot - a lot

but I don't scream the f-word at my children and I think it's shocking that people do

and I worry about the normalising effect threads like this have once people start talking about more extreme behaviour like smacking and calling children idiots etc

I thought I had been fairly specific that it was abusive screaming of obscenities at children that I was getting at, not swearing in their earshot

I actually agree with most of your post

I was petrified of my mother and stepfather (still am

and I would have been petrified of them even if they had left the profanities out of their diatribes

BUT that don't make it right to screech fuck at your kids

actually I think screaming at children can be quite terrifying for them and I would worry about anyone who did it regularly and thought it was something to be shared on a light-hearted thread

but I also completely accept that we all shout sometimes - I do, rarely - but I wouldn't post about it on here, because the whole ethic of the threads suggests thta it doesn't matter, in the way that the occasional sausage roll doesn't matter

But there is a grey area. I dn't swear a great deal (I do swear though I try not to), but I have friends who curse more or less continuously.ANd their children are used to it. To them it is an every day word (fuck) that silly teahcers take offence to, so they mustn't use it at school.

ie "Will you please hang tht fucking coat up, it's been sat in the hall for 3 fucking days!"

Rude? Yes. Common? Yes. Abusive?/ I don't think so.

I still think it moreabout tone. Children only think something is obscene if they are taught it is obscene. It's the out of controlconstant screaming that will upset them, or the hatefilled tone, not the words themselves. (IMO)

A common one around here is a bemused "Fuckin' nora!"

Whingebob - If you go back to the start of the thread, it didnt start off simply being a joke about food choices, most posters were saying I'm a normal person, I sometimes lose my temper and sometimes shout.

Are you honestly saying most people don't ever lose their temper/shout? I accept not everyone swears in front of their DC, I know lots of people who never swear at all. But I can't see how it isn't normal to lose your temper just once or twice, however calm and placid you are.

i think it is abusive though as it is really said in a calm way and is used in a negative shouty fashion most of the time.I agree with whinge though that it is normalising some of this negative behaviour that is awful.A thread asking for help for some of thes ethings would get a different response.

rarely sorry

But that's just your belief, that occasional shouting does matter.

It's my personal belief that a dose of angry mummy reminds children that mummy is a person.

its not normalising it, and the fact the thread was highlighting imperfect behaviour says it all.

Everyone has an opinion on what should be said to/infront of kids and people wont ever agree, so its pointless arguing the toss.. whether you say "fuck" to the kids infront of the kids. Theres alot more to abuse than the odd fucks sake.

My kids know they are loved, yes i may of sworn at them and godforbid smacked their bottoms, but im only human, and we all make mistakes.

I didn't say swearing at your kid was normal. I have done it though when I've been at the end of my rope.
I don't think a smack on the bum (which doesan't even hurt) is a big deal at all though. The swearing worried me far more than that. When I'm tired, anxious and stressed I have zilch patience.

It's abusive to show that you are cross with your children?

Really?

How are they supposed to judge society's response to their behavior if we, as their parents, suppress what would be a normal reaction?

If my child kicks me, I shout "DON@T kick me!" - as anyone would if they were kicked. to crouch dopwn and gently explain for 20 minutes that kicking isn't very nice will set the child up with a false expectation of boundries (sp?) within society. Society is quite, quite firm and quick to correct.

It is not smug to object to adults swearing at children in an agressive manner.

I agree about the tenor of the screaming and the hate-filled tone

but I think to a small child using really extreme swear words as part of the screaming episode ramps up the fear, the shock and the seriousness of the whole experience
it did for me, anyway

I spnt most of my childhood being screamed at by one of the most impressive screamers ever to walk the earth - she could go for hours - I can still hear it now

but I vividly remember the time she turned to me and said contemptuously "Oh Greensleeves, just piss off - I was 6 then

I hate the idea of children being screamed at and sworn at in that way

but yes, I do know parents who would say "fuckin rain AGAIN" in front of their children and no harm done

perhaps I have a slightly different threshold from you in terms of what shocks me and what I object to

but I don't think that makes me smug!

I am off now that the smacking does no harm row is about to start(it does ) as that is something I can never ever condone bye!

Okay, point taken.

We all have different threshholds, I think you're right in what you say - but surely this points to our children having different thresholds?ANd isn't it reasonable assumption that children who only hear swearing in an abusive context will associate it with loss of control and humiliation?Or that children who here swearing every day don't even hear it?

My children are not allowed to swear because in this house swearing, like alcohol, is for adults only.

Funnily enough,I never swore til I was 18.

My parents swore all the time. As I have said above, I never felt anything other than loved by them. WhingeBob, I am saddened that you were/are petrified of your parents. however, as you say, you would have been even without the swearing.

I would never want my children to feel scared of me

I do agree that swearing with kids around is not anything abusive. Apparently my maternal grandmother had a nice line in swearing, even fitting swearwords in the middle of other words if she was really cross. My mum and her siblings knew they were loved etc. However I think swearing AT children is somewhat different and in no way can it be a nice experience for the kid. If someone swears at me it is not ok. I think it's easy to think it is ok because it's in the context of a loving home; well, I really can't accept it's ok.

In the context of an end-of-tether desperate mistake moment then yes we're all human but if it's about getting them to the bus every day I think as parents it's up to us to think our way round things a bit better rather than swear at them to get results. Personally.

Also the kids who are sworn at totally take it to school with them and try it out on other kids and it bloody annoys me

food for thought there colditz, about children's thresholds

but I still feel that screaming swear words at children, smacking them etc is much more extreme - in a different class, in fact - than giving a packet of Hula Hoops for breakfast every once in a while

and there is a normalising effect on this sort of thing from people posting it in the spirit of threads like these

Was she like this or worse?

And - Greensleeves? Wonderful to see you!