My husband has been mugged (or something). I lack sympathy. Am I very horrible or just slightly awful?

[NeverLeapfrogOverAUnicorn]

On another of his benders. Went off to get computer fixed at 930am yesterday morning. About 3pm I phoned him 4 times in a row - it rang but no answer and then the 5th time his phone was off I wouldn't mind but I was only trying to get him because I needed a number that's stored on his phone! I didn't give a shit where he was! Anyway, I digress...

So no sign of him last night. I took the kids to my parents' house, had a moan (and a fag!) came home, went to bed. No sign of him this morning. Oh well, I thought. Went to Tesco, came back. Cos you see, I no longer care where he is when he disappears. I just plod on with my day.

Got a phone call from him. "Turned your mobile back on now I see" was my opener

Anyway. Turns out the stupid drunken fuck met some blokes last night, went with them back to their place to carry on drinking and overhead them in another room talking about beating him up and taking his wallet!

So he legged it!

But no wallet or keys

And he's been wandering round for hours because he didn't want to call me!

So I am now waiting for locksmith, have cancelled all the cards, and am waiting for him to get up (yes, he went to bed cos he's knackered and upset!) so he can report it to the police so I can get a crime number which is the only way the insurance company will change my car lock!

Oh, and we are now £80 lighter so lets hope the kids old school shoes still fit cos I now can't buy them new ones.

I know I ought to feel sorry for him but I just think he's a twat and maybe this'll teach him!

and how is he going to do that ?

what will change ?

didn't he just go to get the computer fixed or summat? Then 24 hrs later, he comes back with some cock'n'bull story

he never means to do this

he didn't exactly set off with a "bender" in mind, did he ?

it just sorta "happened" to him

like those pints just somehow "found their way down his throat"

hec, please wake up

Yep that is all well and good Hecate, but if he goes with mates I think that is even worse, getting egged on.

Or does he mean the only time he will go out for a drink is when he takes you?

has he sworn off the booze too?
only you know if you can live with the fear that he might do it again
and if you've decided that if he does go out drinking thats it, the end, you have to follow through
does he have loads of drinking pals? when willhe see his mates?

read your op hec

What happened to the computer btw? Did it find its way to the shop?

Highly usual in an alcoholic tbh The big over blown completely unrealistic promise.You are worth more than this I have always read posts by you on other subjects and had no idea you were in this situation you seem so together and smart.Promising never to go out again etc is ridiculous but keeps the option of drinking open to him.What about giving up alcohol then he can go wherever he likes without it affecting all of you negatively xx

yes. computer got to shop. he did that first!

no he doesn't have drinking buddies, he always goes out alone and finds people to drink with.

yes, the only time he will go out for a drink is with me. he says.

af - nail on head! in fact, he says stuff like "it was not my intention..." like he is not responsible, he was the victim of a plot to drag him to the pub against his will and force alcohol down his throat. I say to him that it was his choice to have one and then another and then another...He could have not had one, or left after one.

You are right. I need him to go. I want him to go. But I also want him to stay. Or rather, I want to be loved.

I have been thinking a LOT since friday. I am reading this thread over and over. I am going to see the counsellor. I am going to carry on losing weight - and putting more effort into it than I am atm!. I am going to work at getting myself more mobile. I am going to make a list of those things he does (and doesn't!) that are unacceptable to me and present it to him. And I am going to tell him that I will not carry on like this. I really am. I am tired.

You know, today I was thinking that this has been my life for 12 years. I am now 35. I was picturing myself in another 12 years. 47. 24 years of this. What a waste. It was horrible to imagine it actually.

And I am not going to start another thread about him until the one where I tell you that a) he's gone or b) he's changed totally, never drinks and we have sex so much I've worn it out!

When you're in the thick of it, NeverLeapFrog, it's easy to believe you have some control over the situation, and that your love and concern and appreciation for the DH mean something to him. It's easy to believe that all that's needed is a little fine tuning on your part, plus some sort of magical lifting of the fog on his part, and you will have a prince on your hands, not a frog. It's so distressing to have to accept defeat, so humiliating to accept that your love is not enough, so miserable to look at all the years and the pain you have endured and realise it was all for nothing.

Have you ever heard the serenity prayer? "Grant me the courage to accept the things I cannot change.."

You have to accept that you cannot change this man into the man you have in your imagination.

hecate, oh hecate

< speechless >

you don't need to stop posting about anything

I know you must feel our exasperation (not exactly holding back, are we...)

you are a good person, remember that

and you deserve better

you certainly are not. But I wouldn't expect anything else from MNers. If I wanted fluffy huggles and no good advice, I know where to go...

math - so true. I know. God that's hard to accept though, isn't it?

Would he consider AA or something like it?

oops, I suppose "speechless" means you say nothing at all

Finally, Hecate sees the light!

You daft thing, start new threads... keep posting...

have already visited the site. Apparently when you join they give you a starter pack. Their site has these to download, so I've done that for him to read. Am planning how to present them!

"I need him to go. I want him to go. But I also want him to stay. Or rather, I want to be loved."

You will be loved. You are loved already. It just doesn't have to involve him.

So what he's saying is "Once I start drinking I have no reliable control over how much I drink. And bad things happen when I drink a lot. But rather than do the sensible thing and get help for my inability to control my drinking, I plan to only get drunk in your presence. If I then get drunk and bad things happen I can blame you for letting me drink too much."

Or, more succinctly, "I know I can't reliably control my drinking and I'm going to continue drinking regardless."

When you think about it that tells you all you really need to know about alcoholism.

Forgive me but I sense something of a disparity in what you are saying. Yesterday you were saying that if he ever did this kind of thing again, he was out. Now you seem to be saying that you have a list of things you want to achieve for yourself before you would consider giving him the elbow. While waiting and seeing if he will, by magic, turn into someone who will reliably and consistently treat you with the respect and love that you deserve.

What happens if he continues to pick pointless arguments with you then gets shit-faced at home? What happens if he picks a pointless argument with you, storms out, but comes back after only a couple of beers? What happens if he stops drinking but still doesn't want to have sex and still picks pointless arguments with you?

I'm not trying to be mean here. What I'm trying to do is demonstrate that you are continuing to make your future happiness dependent on an alcoholic's promises about his future drinking habits. Alcoholics lie about their drinking. They'll lie to everyone around them but, most of all, they lie to themselves. They pretend to themselves that they really mean the promises when it's expedient for them to do so. Then the next time the urge hits them, they'll lie to themselves about how they didn't really make that kind of promise, or that the promise doesn't count in this particular situation.

If you want to know if an alcoholic is serious about doing something about their drinking problems, don't bother to listen to what they say about it. Watch what they do.

But let's leave all that tedious stuff aside. His drinking, and his lies about it, are his problem. You can make plans for your own happiness that are independent of, and unaffected by, his drinking. That doesn't necessarily mean leaving him but it is crucial that you work towards detaching yourself emotionally from his alcohol problems. You didn't cause his alcoholism, you cannot control it, and you can't cure it. His drink problems are his to own and his to deal with (or not). Your responsibility is to work out what it is you are prepared to put up with in your life and what you are not.

You're right.

you're blunt but you're right. You all are. (blunt and right!)

My problem is that I feel a million different completely conflicting emotions and want things that can't go together, iyswim. And want things that are never going to happen. and change my mind hundred times a day. And get my hopes up every time I am chucked a crumb or 2.

That's why I think counsellor is a good move. Take my jumbled mess of contradictions and try to sort it all out in my mind. Sort myself out first.

I believe hec is already detaching herself from the situation to a certain extent (going off the tone of the OP)

However, in this case it just seems to give him carte blanche to carry on doing as he sees fit

she needs to get tough, not roll over and say "this is his problem"

this is her problem too, while it affects her life and her dc are witnessing such a fucked-up rlationship

so, my advice is throw him out

then, and only then, if he proves by his actions he can/is able to take steps to get help, should he be allowed anywhee near his family

because "rolling over" is what she has been doing for a long time

until recently, because there were certain physical dependencies

now those are reducing, the emotional dependency is the problem

but I don't think hec is ready to cut those inter-dependent ties just yet (unfortunately)

AF, an alcoholic will drink wherever and whenever they damn well like. It doesn't matter if they feel they have been given carte blanche to drink or if they feel that you will be monstrously hurt and angry if they so much as touch a drop. Sure, they'll come up with some poxy self-serving "justification" for it being ok for them to get shit-faced whenever they want to ("My wife doesn't care about me so it doesn't matter" works just as well for that as "My wife's a controlling bitch and I'll show her") but that's just window-dressing. They'll drink when they want.

The problem is, if you're in a relationship with an alcoholic you can easily end up almost obsessed about what, how much, when, and with whom they're drinking. Pop along to an Al-Anon meeting or two, or read Melody Beattie's books, and you'll hear endless stories of people going through the rubbish to count the empties, or watering down the bottles of vodka so they don't get drunk as fast, or setting traps, or... the list is endless. And then there's all the crap we do to clear up their messes for them afterwards (changing locks, cancelling cards, washing puke-sodden clothes, making excuses, making apologies to others for how they behaved etc). And then there's the promises you wish they will keep but fear they will break, the pathetic and insulting excuses, the worthless apologies, the fretting about whether they'll get pissed and ruin yet another special night out... Alcoholism can take over not just the life of the alcoholic, it can very easily dominate the lives of those around it.

All the time your attention is nailed to what they're drinking and managing the consequences thereof, it's being distracted from what's important. It doesn't matter if the reason Hec's OH is treating her with such disregard and disrespect is because he's an alcoholic, a drug addict, a sociopath or just a plain and simple arsehole. What matters is that he's regularly treating her with such disregard and disrespect full-stop.

What's important is that Hec is in a relationship with someone who is (at best) frequently emotionally and physically absent from the relationship and (at worst) is flat-out abusive. The reasons why he's like that are of much lower importance.

It takes a lot of mental clarity to work that kind of stuff out at the best of times and doing so while in a relationship with an actively drinking alcoholic is far from the best of times. Given that Hec does not seem to be in a position to leave right now (which is her choice) I'm suggesting a way of looking at the situation that will help reduce such distractions.

we agree that hec does not seem to be in a position to leave

but I am not quite getting what you mean by "a way of looking at the situation"

she is already doing all the things you are suggesting...actually, what are you suggesting snorbs (am not attacking you, I do believe you speak with authority here, much more than I do in fact)

it seems to me that doing nothing (on Hec's part) just means more of the same....

hec, sorry to talk about you as if you were not here

From someone speaking from experience "somehow being 'dissatisfied' with certain behaviours" is enough!!

Been through the whole go out at 9am to work go for drink after and turn up at some stupid time the following day (the first couple of times thought he was dead)

ignored phone calls (battery always dies at the wrong time, as if)

Spent 8years excusing it with:

He's kind, funny, intelligent (usually!), generous, a brilliant fully hands on dad etc etc (oh and, I love him)

Woke up this year and decided enough was enough, after another drinking binge saw him stealing one of my work collegues handbag at a christmas party (i'm the boss)and him claiming he 'found it' despite the fact a random couple in the bar saw him take it

and that as they say was that.

Haven't looked back, you'll be amazed at the difference you feel in yourself (it's fantastic!!!!!)

Don't take my word for it try it I'd recommend it to anyone.

Any person that can let people down that way whether it be every day or just once a year whatever has no respect for the people around them (including the kids!) took me nearly 9years to realise it but I'm glad I've woken up

Set the alarm

I think, AnyFucker (I love that name!) that Snorbs is trying to say that Hecate should not believe that anything she does influences her DH. She cannot make his long-term behaviour worse by asserting herself. She cannot make his long-term behaviour better by cow-towing to him. She has to not allow her behaviour to be influenced by how she might think it will influence DH. She just has to decide what she wants, and act accordingly, ignoring him. Essentially, she has to not feel any guilt or responsibility about his behaviour, she can't change it so stop trying and just concentrate on herself.

ohhh, then I get that

that is bloody brilliant advice

same as my advice

except mine requires the fucker to be out of the house and not sticking around to inflict more of his destructive behaviour on the hearts and minds of the rest of the family

I have said enough on this thread now actually

am just rather upset that hec, who is a lovely person as far as I can tell, is being treated so badly, and making excuses to allow it to continue

any more input from me is not likely to be helpful, tbh

< slopes away, but keeps an eye out to offer support the next time she needs it...... >