To think that health professionals should not call me MUM

[Reallytired]

DD had her jabs today and the nurse kept on calling me "Mum" even though I said to her that I did not want her to call me "Mum". I told her that it was a biological impossiblity that I was her mother.

I have two children and I am happy for me to call me Mum, but I do have a proper name and I think health professionals should use it.

Thank you Snapple

"Its not asking a lot, it doesnt cost anything, it doesnt undermine you as a professional, its easy and it means a lot."

amen, chegirl.

well said chegirl. HCP may think its a trivial issue but it makes a huge difference when your child is in hospital AGAIN and you are wondering if this time they will be leaving.

Chegirl- I wasn't going to add to this thread again but I noticed your heartfelt and v sad post about your DD. I cannot begin to imagine her pain and your pain but I can certainly understand how and why all those 'small' things were not at all small to you. Those things will be FAR more important to you than a one off meeting with a nurse (as in the OP). They will be forever seared in your memory. You will never forget them. I always pause and think before breaking a piece of really bad news to a patient and think something like 'you have to do this in the best possible way because they are going to remember this forever'. I know this and so do most other HCPs.
I don't know why you (plural) assume that the HCPs on this thread don't understand this.
Perhaps some of the responses seemed defensive to some of you. We have simply been trying to explain to you why this has been and is happening, not to justify it. This is mumsnet and we are not in our professional capacities! If one of you were to complained to one of us whilst we were in our professional capacities, of course we would not say things like "you are not representative' or 'we are too busy' or 'nursey procedures'. Of course, under those circumstances, that response would be stupid as it would inflame the situation further. But this is mumsnet and we are responding in a completely different way because of it. The second reason for this perceived defensiveness is the rude, saarcastic and bullying nature of one particular posters (aitch's) remarks. If you are rude and saarcastic to someone, put words into their mouth and treat them with no respect, of course they will feel defensive and behave in a defensive way.
Aitch, I am so unsurprised that you like the response of you medical director pal. Of course, it is just what you wanted him to say as it makes you feel more important and the HCPs less so. You come across as having a really big chip on your shoulder about HCPs/ the medical profession. Perhaps there is a good reason why but you have chosen not to explain it on this thread. Your Dr friend was utterly unprofessional to say those things about his colleagues. I suspect it made him feel more important too (even you remarked on his large ego).

Snapple, I find it really interesting that you have assumed that jybay is male. I haven't seen any suggestion of that (if there has been I do apologise). You appear to have again imagined paternalism which just isn't there.
Lastly, chegirl, I hope that al your sons grow up healthy and happy. I am sure they will make you very proud in whatever profession they choose!

ye gods, looby.

quite apart from the number of personal attacks on me, which i find baffling as i have only ever responded to your posts... (yeah, tell someone to take personal responsibility and then take none yourself, nice one), you have yet again missed the point.

reallytired's nurse and chegirl's nurse might be the same person... don't you see? so the 'mum' thing needs to be cut out root and branch. it's not acceptable in some situations and not in others, it's just a bit of jargon used by lazy people.

and thank you for your explanation re what you would say to a patient and what you would say on MN (ie what you're actually thinking, to wit that we're foolish complainers who should think ourselves lucky that this is all we have to complain about). at least my friend would never dream of blaming the patients' for the deficiencies of his staff, and would seek to do something about it rather than go into automatic 'take nhs hostage' defence mode. i really respect his open mind.

if a HCP thinks privately we are a bunch of whingers complaining about nothing then that attitude is going to colour proffessional work. If as a mum you cant see the issue then what hope is there to get HCP to change?

did any of the hcps have a comment to make on snapple's links?

oh, and i've been thinking about this, so apologies for the multi-posts.

i really Do Not have any issue with the NHS. i love it. i've said that repeatedly on this thread. i have had a TERRIBLE experience with one doctor, apart from that it's all been highly impressive. i still don't like when HVs call me 'mum' though.

so forget about any chip you think i have about the NHS, looby, please, it's simply not the case.

what i do find utterly fascinating, though, is the institutionalised thinking that goes on in the NHS, as demonstrated amply by this thread.

any criticism is an attack that must be defended to the hilt, the problem MUST lie with the patient because the NHS machine is sacrosanct. it's embarrassing. i can't think of any other profession where people are so defensive. it's like hcps think they're the only people who work hard for their fifty grand...

"I find it very sad and frustrating that seems to be difficult for some posters to grasp"

I think what is so frustrating the HCPs on this thread is that - to a woman - we HAVE grasped this. We have all said that calling someone "Mum" is cringe-worthy and should not happen. We agree with you.

As loobylu says, we have tried to explain why slip-ups happen - that is not the same saying that we approve of them.

Personally I have never addressed anyone as "Mum" or - to the best of my recollection - anything other than his/her actual name. I call everyone over about 30 "Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms" unless invited to use a first name.

What I find frustrating about Aitch's posts is that she has repeatedly said that she "doesn't want to be called anything" and that it should be obvious to HCPs that she is her children's parent but not their mother (hope I have got this viewpoint right). Surely you do not have to be a HCP to see that this would make our lives impossible? We have to be able to ask who people are and what their relationship is to the child - our patient.

It is a bit bizarre to see people posting links for my attention about the correct way to identify patients but at the same time to flame me for saying that HCPS have to ask who the adult accompanying a child is.

So, to summarise:

1. I don't approve of calling people "Mum"
2. I do think that HCPs have to ask adults who they are

Aitch - I took this to a meeting (as promised on the last thread..!) Very interesting. Most were horrified that it caused offence - it simply didn't register with them that it might. There were a few huffy answers (I'll let you imagine what they were) but on the whole the feeling from the nurses on my unit was that they didn't do it, but agreed that it was a patronising thing to say!

The main feeling though was that this was the tip of a huge iceburg's worth of communication issues that dominate the NHS. It's a huge challenge.

"What I find frustrating about Aitch's posts is that she has repeatedly said that she "doesn't want to be called anything" and that it should be obvious to HCPs that she is her children's parent but not their mother (hope I have got this viewpoint right)."

no, you haven't. not only have you got it wrong repeatedly but i've corrected it a couple of times, as has HerBeatitude, so i have no idea why you are so fixated on it.

it should be obvious to any HCP that i am not THEIR mother. their mum, presumably, took them to school, baked birthday cakes etc, maybe even lives in a house with their dad.

what i've said is that if it's genuinely too much trouble to ask a person who they are and how they wish to be addressed, then they can just call the person 'you' in any case as this will cause no offence.

vide, 'Mum, could you hold her arm/Mum, can you sit there please?' vs 'could you hold her arm/could you sit there, please?'

just calling the person 'you'... no harm, no foul and it wouldn't send anyone's blood pressure sky high i think.

I went to bed thinking about chegirls experiences when HCP talked about disabled parents. Absolutely shocking and disgraceful.

oooh, interesting plus3. yyy that's what i think, i'm sure it's just a habit that one nurse unthinkingly passes on to another in most cases, a wee shortcut, part of the hospital's language (albeit with its roots in a power grab). how terrifically cool that you brought it up. well done, that's fab.

and yes, i think i can imagine the grumbles...

i know, riven. really . when was this, did she say?

As a HCP, I introduce myself like this,
"Hello, my name is xxx, I'm the nurse looking after you today, please call me by my first name."
I write my name in the appropriate space on their name board so patient and their family members know who to ask for if they have any questions about the plan of care, or any other random stuff. Invariably I spend the next 12 hours being referred to as "Nurse".

It really gets on my tits...

"the HCPs on this thread is that - to a woman - we HAVE grasped this. We have all said that calling someone "Mum" is cringe-worthy and should not happen. We agree with you."

That is not actually true is it? One of the HP's on here told us we were very foolish to object to it and small minded - in bold!

And the amount of misrepresentation that is going on about Aitch's posts is staggering. She is not saying that the HCP's should be telepathic and know her name and status, that is a deliberate muddying of the waters in order to make her look hysterical and unreasoning. Anyone reading the thread with attention, who doesn't have an axe to grind, can see that.

Oh well done plus, nice to see a constructive, pro-active response to complaints! LOL at the imagined grumbles, I'll let myself be guided by Sawyer's posts

thanks, hb, i'm a bit boggled by the hcps on here painting black as white wrt my opinion. lol.

stanaus, that's interesting that it gets on your tits. i personally like a first name basis, i think it's friendly, but do you think people that are calling you nurse do so as a mark of respect or lack of respect, iykwim?

what do the doctors call you in front of patients? i was in hospital for ten days with dd2 and i was really horrified at the fact that doctors who worked with nurses all the time still called them nurse. and the drs were always dr too. it just seemed so hierarchical, so old-fashioned and to the nurses, so disrespectful, as if they could be replaced by another drone and no-one would have noticed a difference.

I don't think they call me nurse as a matter of respect, more that they can't be bothered to remember my name, and/ or I am that drone, easy to replace! I prefer first names as I like to think that if I am caring for you, we will develop some sort of relationship, and it feels like an imbalance of power if I were to insist on being known as "Nurse (insert surname here)", but refer to you by your first name (if that is what you want to be known by, of course )
I think pretty much every doctor I've worked with, has called me by my first name, and with the exception of consultants, I call them all by their first names too. (I think if you've endured everthing that the surgeons in my area go through to get to be consultant, then you deserve to be known as Mr/Ms - would never tell them that though!)

so it's kinda the same irritation, then? that's really interesting. and of course one thing that you could do to swing the power imbalance in the other direction is refer to parents as drone-like 'mum'? (not that you do, clearly).

I complained to my MP about the refusal of the council to give my son the right amount of help at school (he has autism and ADHD). The response back to the MP from the head of children's services was littered with "mum had different ideas" and "mum's evidence appeared different" etc. etc.

The MP sent a covering letter to me in which she expressed her disgust at this practice and said "I am sure that you are as dismayed as I am that you have been repeatedly been called 'mum'"!

Tbh, I hadn't noticed it till then but think he had done it as a power thing, consciously or not. I mean, my name was on the complaint that my MP forwarded to him and also in her own complaint letter to him!

I apologise for my earlier posting error.
Thank you for questioning it Looby.

I realise that I repeatedly used the term 'his' - I tried to correct and then repeatedly posted the links !!! oops!

My post with the links should have read -
.. again jybay might think THIS warrants a read with THIS weird logic about getting perspective?

I will check this evening to catch up on the chat and see if there has been any progress with regarsd to constructive comments by hcp and others in response to the links that were sent.

givememoresleep that's just ghastly! And in writing, as well. I can't imagine any time in my professional life that I would find it acceptable to refer to someone like that.

Reminds me of DS1's first nursery parents' evening, where we were all given name badges. Mine said 'DS1's Mummy'.

I am also at a loss to understand why so many people on this thread think Aitch isn't her DD's mother?

Odd.

'What I find frustrating about Aitch's posts is that she has repeatedly said that she "doesn't want to be called anything" and that it should be obvious to HCPs that she is her children's parent but not their mother' (by jybay)

LOL

by "their" aitch means she isn't the HCPs' mother, not that she isn't her children's mother

English can be a very imprecise language sometimes...I bet that wouldn't happen in Latin