To think that health professionals should not call me MUM

[Reallytired]

DD had her jabs today and the nurse kept on calling me "Mum" even though I said to her that I did not want her to call me "Mum". I told her that it was a biological impossiblity that I was her mother.

I have two children and I am happy for me to call me Mum, but I do have a proper name and I think health professionals should use it.

i don't understand why saying 'and you are?' is a dealbreaker, though, for some people. it's not going to kill an hcp to ask, is it? and as someone else pointed out, these basic checks are proven to benefit patients.

newsflash, jyjay. 'are you mum' isn't okay, 'are you his/her/or even better name's mum' is. only an alien would say 'are you the mother?'

Yes but you don't always know the child's name. It's ok if you're a GP and the child is the booked-in patient but often it's not that simple. Patients catch you in the corridor or waiting room and they bring in other children to the consultation then ask advice about them too - often they turn out to be a niece or neighbour's kid so the HCP does need to check.

I think "are you his/her mum?" sounds ruder because it is somehow more officious, though clearly it's a matter of personal taste. "And you are..?" sounds INCREDIBLY rude in my book!

Aitch you would be surprised at what is a dealbreaker for some people.

Just as you are getting all inflammed about being called Mum (for which I sympathise it is grim) there are others who get inflammed about being called Mrs Childs Surname when that isn't their name.

There are others who get upset when you ask if they the childs Mother, and even more commonly, men who get really twitched when you try to establish if they are actually the childs Father or not. Even more difficult to do is to establish if they have parental responsibility (for unmarried couples with children born pre 2003 this has to be formally applied for). You have to have parental responsiblity to legally consent for children to have operations etc. This is also a bit of problem when granny brings kids to appointments (and I wouldn't ever call her Granny to her face) or when children are looked after in informal kinship agreements by other relatives. I always feel that as HCP I get targeted with a lot of aggro for attempting to deal with these issues but they are important. If I were to anaesthetise a young child for an elective proceedure and invalid consent had been taken (ie not from someone with Parental Responsibility/ a guardianship order)I would be laying myself open for litigation.

Yes, parents names are often recorded in the nursing notes, but it is 1) often buried amidst other information 2) those notes may not be available 3)it might not be there - the nurses on our day case unit have got into the really annoying habit of writing contact numbers down as "mum' 0708098089 and "dad"kjdfjdljf GRRR!

The other annoying thing that none of you have mentioned is when people insist on calling a child "it" or "he/ she (the wrong one)". This drives me to distraction and is one that lots of junior (well, more junior than me) doctors seem to do.

WRT notes/ letters writing d/w Mum is just gramatically incorrect. You should write d/w Mother (and sometimes I am guilty of that because I don't know their name) because legally it is important to document all discussions.

There is also a world of difference between a HCP that you have only met once briefly calling you Mum and members of a team (eg oncology ward nurses) calling you Mum ???? or have i misunderstood? The first strikes me as rude and annoying but copable with. The last strikes me as the kind of thing that would have you swinging for them. I have to see even as a mere anaesthetist (I meet familes for about 15 mins pre op, for around 10mins in the anaesthetic room and then for about 5 mins afterwards on the ward) I do tend to manage to pick up the names of our frequent flyers' parents(usually orthopedic/ oncology kids).

God this is long. Sorry.

In summary, I think you need to tell people what you want to be called, not be pissed off when they question your relationship and then you can be justifiably annoyed if they ignore you.

Sorry that should be "members of a team you deal with regularly (eg. oncology ward nurses) calling you Mum???

no. i'm sorry but no, gasman and all the other hcps who haven't really listened yet (because they're too used to being the most powerful people in the room, who knows?)

bollocks to me having to tell people how i wish to be addressed. i am NOT their mum. that SHOULD be obvious. their mum is living in their mum's house, possibly even with their dad.

i don't much care if i'm not called anything whatsoever, i just don't want someone addressing me as mum unless i've given birth to them.

and yes, i agree that 'and you are?' isn't madly polite, but nor is calling me mum. if you need to know the parental relatioship there just a little possessive 'his' or 'her' will make such a difference to my blood pressure.

but in the end i am FASCINATED to know what, really and honestly, hand on heart, is the big fat hairy deal with just calling me 'you' if i'm sitting in front of you and you know for a flaming fact that i am the child's parent?

But why is the default Mum?

How did that arise? I remember going to the hospital with my mother when I was a child and they never called her Mum. When did this particular discourtesy first become the norm?

are the GPs on here who don't use 'mum' as certain that their midwife, HV and reception staff members also don't? is it something they'll be bringing up at their next meeting?

'The other annoying thing that none of you have mentioned is when people insist on calling a child "it" or "he/ she (the wrong one)". This drives me to distraction and is one that lots of junior (well, more junior than me) doctors seem to do.'

or 'the CP child' 'the Downs child'.
Really not nice. manners take no time and cost nothing.

Gassman I simply can't get my head around why people can't seem to grasp this issue.

To quote gassman:

"There is also a world of difference between a HCP that you have only met once briefly calling you Mum and members of a team (eg oncology ward nurses) calling you Mum ???? or have i misunderstood? The first strikes me as rude and annoying but copable with. The last strikes me as the kind of thing that would have you swinging for them."

Yes I think you have misunderstood -why make assumptions? Some posters on this thread would be equally uncomfortable with either situation!!!

To quote gassman
"Yes, parents names are often recorded in the nursing
notes, but it is 1) often buried amidst other information 2) those notes may not be available 3)it might not be there - the nurses on our day case unit have got into the really annoying habit of writing contact numbers down as "mum' 0708098089 and "dad"kjdfjdljf GRRR!"

Have you told the nurses on your day case unit that they have an a really annoying habit of writing contact numbers down?

If not, then what is the incentive for them to stop doing it and other hcp's using that as an excuse for not being able to call someone by their correct name?????

Is it really that difficult to grasp this issue?

GPs don't employ midwives or HVs - they may use our surgeries (though they often don't these days) but they are independent practitioners and would quite rightly tell us where to get off if we started laying down the law on how they speak.

As for Aitchwonders - how the hell is it supposed to be "obvious" to us that you are not the child's mother? Apparently we are supposed magically to know that you are the child's parent but not his/her mother. We have thousands of patients and we don't memorise their family trees. You really must think we have nothing more important to think about than your ego. FFS we are there to give health care, not to pander to your hang ups about your family situation. What is the big deal with asking you how you want to be addressed?

And please bear in mind that, when you are dealing with an HCP as a parent, it is your child who is our patient, not you, and it is our duty to ensure that we are treating the child correctly. As gasman says, that includes making sure that the person who is accompanying the child has parental responsiblity for him/her.

I am all for good manners but that's a two way process.

Where in Aitch's post does she recommend not having good manners?

DS' consultant just called me.

He said, 'hi, it's FirstName, is that DS' Mum, ilovemydog... . How are you, first of all?'

Then he said, 'is it a good time to talk...' keeping in mind that he very kindly was returning my call because DS has been ill....

Perfect.

is that an NHS consultant, ilovemydog?

Aitch doesn't want us to call her "Mum" because she doesn't feel it is appropriate for her situation but she also doesn't want us to ask her how she wants to be addressed because - apparently - "it should be obvious". How can any HCP win?

She has also suggested that "And you are...?" or just "You" would be her preference when addressed - I think many people would find those far more rude than "Mum".

I found the nurse's behaviour in the OP incredibly rude but posters like Aitch seem to have completely unrealistic expectations. We cannot guess who every relative is and how s/he might want to be addressed.

hah! see? you absolutely have not grasped the point that the hcp is NOT MY MUM. so why are they calling me mum? gasman, you aren't even reading my posts before bristling, lol.

and if it's true that you don't think it's appropriate to have a conversation with the staff en masse as to how your surgery is treating its patients then you don't deserve your fifty grand a year. that is a shameful state of affairs, imo. (and also bullshit, i suspect. i take it you have policies on men calling women 'sweetheart' and sensitivities over racial terms and terms referring to disability? so how difficult would it be to cascade the BMA recommendation throughout all staff Because It Is A Good Recommendation?)

i'm truly horrified at the hcps on this thread, even those who don't do it are making excuses for those who do...

I give up.

I don't do it (call people Mum). I'm not really apologising for other people who do either, cos I don't like it & think it is rude.

I'm just trying to explain why it happens (and I don't think it's acceptable that it happens either) As it obviously bothers you so much I think you all need to write in everytime it happens to let those in authority know. That is the way you will orchestrate change not be sniping at those people who have tried to explain to you how it happens.

In the greater scheme of NHS battles I'll fight the ones that actually endanger patients lives (and despite working in a no blame culture etc. etc) there are still plenty of them around for me to get steamed up about.

I, as one mere doctor (we are the lowest of the low as far as nursey procedure type things go), won't be able to change this for you. I can however maintain my own custom of not doing it and will try to influence the practice of my more junior colleagues.

Here endeth my contribution to this thread.

to reiterate for the doctors in da house.

it should be obvious to you that i am not your mum. you'll have met your mum before, she'll have been the one with the cake at your birthday parties.

i'm not her. i'm the one with the cake at my kids' birthday parties.

do you see? some random hcp is not my child, so please could they stop calling me mum?

you haven't really explained why it happens, though, gasman, you've just made excuses. there's no good reason to call someone mum, there really isn't. it's just become something that is done and is acceptable amongst, in particular, midwives.

depressing that you think it's our responsibility to deal with it. i raather think in the nhs, doctors rank higher than patients when it comes to changing things. and like i say, i wouldn't complain about it at the time.

although i did complain to the guy who runs my local hospital, as it happens, he was the one who said it was a power grab by people who are light of brain. but what would he know, eh?

Yes, thanks, I have grasped that point.

You don't seem to have grasped my points that:

1. midwives and HVs are not my staff. You rail against the paternalism of doctors yet you seem to want me to tell independent practitioners who are not employed by me how to behave.

2. I already said that I do not approve of people calling parents "Mum" but how are we supposed to know what to call you if we don't ask ("Mum" would never be my default but personally I also find "you" quite rude).

3. If this is all you have to worry about with regard to healthcare, you can count yourself very lucky.

'And please bear in mind that, when you are dealing with an HCP as a parent, it is your child who is our patient, not you, and it is our duty to ensure that we are treating the child correctly.'

acksherly, its a partnership because the parent carries out 99% of the treatment and has 99% of the information about how the child is or isn't feeling.
If you think the parent isn't a major part of this then I would leave the room and see how you got on finding out whats up with a child with no speech (not that GP's ever do. They take one look at dd and tend to back off mumbling 'go to A&E' like we have 6 hours spare in our day)
To be honest though, GP's are generally more able to recall your name. Its hospital doctors and nurses that cant seem to be bothered. And they would be totally buggered if the parents weren't there. Can you imagine a ward with quadriplegic children if the parents didn't do all the minute by minute care and feeding?

Ofcourse good manners is a 2 way process.

However, come on jybay - loads of professions work in multi-discipline teams or workplaces, you don't have to employ a midwife or HV to inform them of developments or question the state of their note taking?

Who is talking about laying down the law - pass them the research on the elderspeak, print out this thread, show that to potential patients that it has real impact, as health professionals could it not be part of their continual professional development? Put it up on a notice board.

Or do hcp's, mw and gps work in silos? Not at the very good practices surely?

Surely a quick introduction from both patient and hcp on both sides should suffice, however as the OP has noted in her experience despite requesting not to be addressed as "mum" - she still was.

they'll be changing soon at our local hospital. We've instigated compulsory disability eqaulity training days. Even compulosry for consultants. The 'mum' thing will be bought up.

you haven't really explained why it happens, though, gasman, you've just made excuses. there's no good reason to call someone mum, there really isn't. it's just become something that is done and is acceptable amongst, in particular, midwives.

depressing that you think it's our responsibility to deal with it. i raather think in the nhs, doctors rank higher than patients when it comes to changing things. and like i say, i wouldn't complain about it at the time.

although i did complain to the guy who runs my local hospital, as it happens, he was the one who said it was a power grab by people who are light of brain. but what would he know, eh?

Yes, he's an NHS Paediatric Consultant.

Love that man.

why 'mum' and not 'wife/husband' of the pateint. Thats never been answered has it?