'why bottle might be better than breast' - GMTV this morning

[babyignoramus]

Hasn't even been shown yet but can't imagine it's going to go down too well here!!!!

Anyone else going to watch - it's going to annoy the arse off me but I can't seem to tear my eyes away......

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Sometimes a "top-up" of infant formula is medically indicated. Often - perhaps even usually - it isn't. It is often suggested in response to perceived "problems" that are actually typical newborn behaviour - such as frequent feeding or cluster feeing, particularly during a growth spurt.

It isn't about brainwashing a women to think she is a "failure" for using a "top-up". But it is about accepting that introducing infant formula will make it much less lkiley that a mother will go on to successfully breastfeed her child. How many mothers have been told they "don't have enough milk" or (even worse, IMO), their milk "isn't good enough")? Aren't thes women being told (implicitly) by hcps that thay have "failed" as breastfeeders? How is that good for anyone's self-esteem?-

'If there was open dialogue antenatally women would at least be aware and prepared for the possibility of getting sore nipples'
I think in general women need to have more realistic expecattions about the realities of breastfeeding and what to expect. Sore nipples, frequent feeds, longer feeds (often), the fact that milk doesn't usually "come in" for around 3 days. They need to know what's normal and what's not.
Maybe then people would be better placed to make an informed judgement whether supplementation with formula was necessary or not.

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But who is saying top-ups are the "work of the devil"?

Usually - not always - it is unnecessary. But sometimes it is absolutely necessary. Who has ever said otherwise?

I don't know enough about your particluar case to be able to comment in much detail, but from what you've said, it sounds like it was absolutely necessary. When I talked of cluster feeding and so on, I was talking more in general tersm about women for whom top-ups are suggested where better breastfeeding advice and support might well be more appropriate.

"If you have inverted nipples, small nipples or soft relatively unpronounced ones you could benefit from using a device to draw out and enlarge the nipple."

Where is the research to back up this assertion?

I would be extremely cagey about suggesting this sort of intervention to women without good evidence that it was effective. Otherwise all you are doing is undermining women's confidence in their bodies and their ability to breastfeed before their baby has even been born.

What most women need to know in advance is about normal newborn feeding patterns, about how and when milk comes in, and about where to get skilled help if they are in pain or feeding is otherwise difficult. Other than this I can't see it's confidence inspiring to go into the complexities of nipple trauma antenatally!

But hey - hand out!

Shake.

We'll agree to differ on this one.

*

"I am saying that you don't have to make it the work of the devil. Because otherwise, you telling mums of the 10% of babies who need the top up that they are not doing their job well"

Don't you think you might be projecting your own feelings of failure onto advice and information which is not the least bit judgemental?

IMO all mothers NEED to be able to make an informed choice whether to supplement or not, and they can't do this without the appropriate information about the risks and benefits of intervening in this way. It's wrong to argue that the majority of women should be denied the chance to make a properly informed choice for themselves and their babies, in order to spare the feelings of the minority who may need to use formula whether they want to or not.

"Again it is a question of giving a BALANCED view."

You don't need to give a 'balanced' view. You need to give women the facts - such as they are known, because they're not deciding between two equal courses of action.

Most women, once they know the facts are not willing to have their babies supplemented with formula unless there is a clear medical indication that it is needed, and that is how it should be IMO.

Anyway - I'm abandoning this thread now - it's taken up waaaaay too much of my energy and time in the last 48 hours. My DH is sulking about me being on the computer so much!

I chose to bottle feed my son before he was even conceived, this was my choice and I don't need a tv show to say I did good or bad

Pitchounette I have to agree with you. I too have large niples (DP is pleased with this ) but it made bfeeding difficult. Like you I had support in hosp as dd was in SBU but one example of it causing a problem was when they were too big to fit in the expressing machine. I proceeded to Bfeed dd for 2.5 years and I can honestly say there was always an element of discomfort even at the end. I am now Bfeeding for the third time and again there is discomfort but not quite as bad as last time. My first breastfeeding experience was agony for about 6 weeks but became pretty much painfree after about 3 months. Breastfeeding is not easy for some and I don't blane people for quiting of mixed feeding. The only reason I persited was a family history of allergies, asthma and eczema and to annoy my mother.

curiositykilled - two polite questions

Please can you provide references and links to the research on nipple challenges and solutions?

Are you a qualified bfc or lactation consultant? You speak with authority on the subject as though this is fact rather than opinion, hence my request for references.

Sakura Mon 24-Aug-09 07:04:36 I literally do not know anyone who bottle feeds

Sorry Sakura - just seen your posts. I did not mean to offend you, sorry if my post came across as harsh. I do find it incredible however that you have never met a Japanese mother that bottle feeds - how many mothers do you know?!

I live in Tokyo and attended regular La Leche meetings where experienced (obviously!) lactation consultants were on hand. They regularly confirmed that Japanese women are sadly only too often encouraged - by the professionals and by their own family to both bf and ff.... which ultimately leads (for many) to a decline in milk production and therefore for a total premature switch to ff.

My frustration comes from the lack of professional support that new mothers need during the first days, weeks (and months in my case). I went to visit my (Japanese) s-in-law last November in hospital after the birth of her DC2. He had been born 2 days before and I asked her how he was, was he feeding well, etc and she replied "I don't know, I've barely seen him since birth - here they want the new mothers to rest so they formula-feed and keep the newborns in the nursery." Her husband is a doctor. This was an incredibly expensive clinic, attended by many a 'celebrity'.... Her comment made me want to weep for her baby. There she was surrounded by her branded toiletries (gifts from the clinic), we had been brought complimentary drinks chosen from the menu in her room, and her 2-day old son was screaming his lungs out in the nursery when we went to see him cause he needed a feed (and no doubt a cuddle too). My heart aches when I think of it.
This is a rich city in a rich country. With priorities totally wrong, in many cases.