'why bottle might be better than breast' - GMTV this morning

[babyignoramus]

Hasn't even been shown yet but can't imagine it's going to go down too well here!!!!

Anyone else going to watch - it's going to annoy the arse off me but I can't seem to tear my eyes away......

That has already been done - amny times.

For examples of results of such stidues, have a look at Pooter's posting on 19 August at 10.05, in this thread.

Gypsymoon. I think that until we tackle the social and psychological issues of why women don't BF, instead of focussing on just the health benefits of BF v FF, there will continue to be lots who might like to BF but feel too self conscious or embarassed to do so.

Admitting one is too self conscious or embarassed to BF is somewhat taboo because a) it shows you have something of an issue with it which goes against the "PC" grain, and b) it sounds selfish.

I have never heard anyone admit publicly that they don't want to BF because of these kind of reasons, but quite a few of my friends have said it privately. If they do BF, some will time visits to end so they can BF back at home, rather than BF out and about.

It's not enough to keep saying how BF is better than FF. Most women in this country now know that and it's still not enough to get them to do it because that's not really the issue. We need to acknowledge some people's reluctance is more deep seated, unpopular though it may be, and address it openly. Address the elephant in the room in BF classes. Ask if anyone feels uncomfortable with the thought of BF and why. Come up with techniques to deal with situations in which a BF woman might feel uncomfortable. eg in a cafe when a group of teenage lads descends on the next table. A small family gathering when everyone is keen to see the baby but you want to disappear to BF - but it seems rude to remove the baby when Nanna's only coming for an hour.

Good post Pawsandclaws. My SIL, for example, is an intelligent woman yet wouldn't even consider bf. I chose not to damage our relationship by disucssuing it further with her - but do know that none of her friends and collegauges had bf either, so am sure that that contributed to her "not liking the idea".

tirring and articulate posts Sabire.Thanks for Diane Weissinger quotes. Never read those before.

Unfortunately Pawsandclaws, we have a 'chicken and egg' situation going on here. Breastfeeding is largely invisible in the UK, so no wonder many women feel self conscious when they swim against the tide by doing it in public.

The only way to normalise breastfeeding is for people to do it, so it becomes accepted by everyone as a normal part of being a mum. Breasts = sexual display in the UK, because overwhelmingly that's how they feature in our culture. The only way to challenge this is to make breastfeeding much, much more visible, and unfortunately that means we need a generation of women to be brave and to not hide themselves away from others while they are feeding their babies.

(ps peeps - thanks for your kind words!)

i am fed up of this thread and backlash against bf. there is no way bottle is ever better than breast and it never will be . breastfeeding is no bed of roses its hard work but rewarding for most. people who tried to breastfeed and didnt make it at least you tried .people who never tried at al what a waste of cholestrum

Colostrum. Not Cholestrum.

thanks knew it was wrong couldnt be bothed to look up google dictionary

Ds2 did his bit today of accustoming people to the sight of breastfeeding. Went to theme park and ended up nursing on viking ride and then on the tractors... Didnt realise there were photos on the tractors so now have fridge magnet of ds1 driving tractor and me and ds2 in back nursing.

On a more serious note i have to agree with foreverchanges, it isnt a bed of roses and is hard work at times. And no there is no equal to breastmilk. Hence the asa forcing a particular company to withdraw comments suggesting otherwise.

I don't understand why we can't just say

@I am BF and proud to be, it's the decisiosn that is best for my family' and not give other people flack

I DO think reveryone needs to be aware of the accurate and most recent info- I am hopelessly oput of date but trained in BF with Unicef and that was the key to me successfully BF ds3 (as opposed to not manmaging with first 2, though ds1 could never have done it)

Once we know everyone has the info or at least access to it as they choose (and everyone here does) life would be easier iof we couild all just accept that personal chopices have been made.

Yes that means seeing FF as a valid choice.

And seeing BF, even (shock and horror moment) extended BF as a valid choice

It works for me, ir works for ds4 and sod the rest of it frankly

Which is perhaps a confidence issue

Somwthing I lost aftewr the thread early in July about extended BF that amde me too shy to bf by my tent on holiday, but life is too short, sod it.

Have pride in the choices you make. It'd amke it easier for others to get help for what they really want, for a start.

Oh for FFS - I HATE these threads.

Most of all I HATE the all this self-rightious banging on about FF being a CHOICE. Sometimes it ISN'T a choice - there is no other option than to let your baby starve to death.

That was my choice - twice.

I'm glad that after much distress I made the 'CHOICE' to FF. I felt like SHIT because I had read all these threads, because a whole load of posters were staring back at me everywhere I looked saying 'BREAST IS BEST', because a whole lot of smugly breast-feeding mums looked at me pityingly in cafes as if I was the scum of the earth and feeding my newborn pig-shit.

I KNOW breast milk is best - and so do many other women who 'failed' to establish BF - for any number of reasons. But I do not appreciate being made to feel bloody guilty for my 'choice' every time I log onto Mumsnet.

To those who breast-fed - congratulations (I resisted putting an expletive in the middle of that last word). Rest happy in the knowledge that you have done the best for your baby under the circumstances and physiology which was presented to you.

So did I.

Sorry to rant but eight years on this is still a subject that makes me foam at the mouth.

Yes you did Zippy, absolutely

DS1 was the same in fact: undiagnosed milk intolt hat meant he could nto have thrived on my milk as it was (ie without me knowing to cut casein out of my diet)

Almost all of us make the choices we do for a genuine belief it is best for our child, that is not to be taken lightly, and we need to be aware that others haev very importannt emotions tied up in what can to us be tiny phases.

I AM pleasedI managed to BF ds4, but that is a personal pride for the little things- having the guts to over ride nay saying MIL, stand to HVs who knewless than me- it is not the bf but the fight to what I feel was best for my (in a complex situation) baby that I take pride in.

If that makes sense?

Thanks Lily. Delighted about your ds4 - if I ever have another I hope it will be different.

Zippy, how can it be that you 'are made to feel bloody guilty for my 'choice' every time I log onto Mumsnet'?

You cohse to come onto this thread. Why did you not stay somewhere where these things don't piss you off?

And as for this bit

'To those who breast-fed - congratulations (I resisted putting an expletive in the middle of that last word)'.

How much more oafish can you get?

ditto

how can it be wrong to be positive about bf

i did it come hell or high water yes im proud of that and no im not rubbing it in

if someone feels guilty about their 'choice' to ff dont blame on other mners who are pro breast feeding

perhaps with more help and support from the right people more would breastfeed

perhaps bf is just not for everyone ,thankgod ff is there as backup

it shouldnt be a guilt issue

Sorry Moondog - but I open these threads because guilt/fury compels me to. Because I know that I am only one out of MANY who feel the same flaming guilt everytime the the same self satisfied evangelical posters start banging on about how FF's are deliberately harming their babies.

All I'm asking for is some acknowledgement that sometimes bf just doesn't work out - it just bloody doesn't. So for mothers who have tried their hardest to get BF to work the patronising (and often classist) assumptions of hardline BF advocates are devastating.

However you're quite right. It's my issue and I have to live with it. I will withdraw.

I really feel for you zippy - this thread is not aimed at all at people in your circumstances

It began becasue of concern at attitudes like those of the GMTV presenters which do not help disseminate the message the breast feeding is the norm and that unless otherwise indicated, should be the normal first choice.

There are still many many people - most of whom would never even come near threads on Mumsnet about breast and formula feeding, who automatically formual feed for whatever reason - for example, as Pawsandclaws said, becasue they feel uncomfortable and who are just interested in the fact that there are risks in formula feeding.

Until presenters on GMTV and other media can get over their "oo-er" attitude, and new mothers can get appropriate support - both from health care professionals and from their partners, family and friends, then breastfeeding in the general population will struggle.

Well Zippy, most people would like those who had trouble with breastfeeding to get more help. If you stopped being angry for a minute you might see that most people are on your side.They feel angry and bad for you, not with you.

I'm sorry you had a shit time.
So did I. It was a very unpleasant part of my life I remember with a lot of pain.

Thanks prettybird. Feeling a bit raw about all this because my sister has a newborn and bf (thank goodness) is going well. I'm delighted for her but it's breaking my heart all over again that I couldn't do the same for mine.

Right. That's it - last comment.

well said moondog

Oops - missed a key word - should read "who are just not interested in the fact that there are risks in formula feeding..."

Okay - very last comment. I did have help - seven nights of staying of hospital and midwives sitting up with me all night every night trying to get both dc's to feed. Nada. Unusual I grant you.

However on general point I agree - there should be more help, more encouragement - I'm all for it.

It must be bittersweet for you zippy - pleased for your sister but re-opening old wounds.

Well bloody hell, noone could say you didn't give it your absolutely best shot. That's all you can ask of any parent eh? Let it go and stop torturing yourself.