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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

'why bottle might be better than breast' - GMTV this morning

409 replies

babyignoramus · 19/08/2009 08:15

Hasn't even been shown yet but can't imagine it's going to go down too well here!!!!

Anyone else going to watch - it's going to annoy the arse off me but I can't seem to tear my eyes away......

OP posts:
pooter · 19/08/2009 09:31

kellise - of course it means ff babies are not as healthy as breast fed ones!! That's what all the research has showed - all the statistics about fewer deaths, fewer hospitalisations, fewer bouts of gastroenteritis, ear infections etc etc.

Thats the point - ff risks the health of babies. thats a known fact.

of course ff if you want - i wont try to stop you, but dont con yourself into believing its just as good.

scarletlilybug · 19/08/2009 09:32

Didn't see the feature, but what a misleading trailer...

"why bottle might be better than breast" wtf?

  1. formula milk is not as good as breastmilk
  1. poorly or incorrectly prepared bottles of formula are not as good as correctly prepared ones

Why is no-one taking the manufacturers to task about this? Why are their instructions (apparently) so unclear or even confusing?How is this somehow the fault of breastfeeders?

newpup · 19/08/2009 09:36

Breast feeding is undoubtedly the most natural but why would any woman choose to berate another woman for her choice in feeding her baby. FF does not risk the health of babies what utter rubbish!

It may not be as good as breast milk but it definately does not risk a baby's health.

Breast feeding is a choice not a requirement!

pooter · 19/08/2009 09:39

no berating from me, just get your facts straight. you are putting your baby at risk if you ff. Ive posted links to the statistics many times before.

I just dont understand why a mum would knowingly put her baby at an increased risk of many health problems. If you want to ff then fine, just be aware of the possible consesquences.

newpup · 19/08/2009 09:44

Honestly what utter rubbish.

You think telling a mother who bottle feeds her baby , which could be for a variety of reasons that she is risking the health of her baby is not berating her?

scarletlilybug · 19/08/2009 09:44

FF does risk the health of babies, I'm sorry to say.

People talk about the "benefits" of braestfeeding as if it is some kind of bonus... breastfed babies are x% less likely to get ear infections, gastroenteritis, etc.

If we turn that idae on its head and look at breastfeeding as the biological norm then we can see, not that breastfed babies are less likely to get gastroenteritis, ear infections and so on, but that formula-fed babies are more likely to get these type of illnesses. Formula feeding does have its associated risks. And infant feeding choices are a public health issue, given that there are significant costs associated with treating the illnesses which tend to occur more frequently in formula-fed babies.

TheDMshouldbeRivened · 19/08/2009 09:46

we weren't shown how to make a bottle correctly.

pooter · 19/08/2009 09:48

i honestly dont want to make any mum feel guilty - i had so much trouble breastfeeding myself i know its not easy.

I am just concerned that as a society we are not doing our best for babies by perpetuating the myth that ff is just as good, and just another choice.

Surely being aware of the facts should be an empowering thing to make it easier to make an informed decision.

I just want healthy babies and healthy mothers - not a crime surely?

jumpingbeans · 19/08/2009 09:50

pm73, spot on, as long as the mum and the baby are healthy and happy what else matters

newpup · 19/08/2009 09:51

Okay lets just issue all new mothers with a list of rules to abide by.

  1. You must breastfeed your baby.
  2. You must not deviate from the list of approved foods.
  3. You must not make any choices regarding your child yourself but must refer to those more superior and follow their ideals in all instances.
  4. All babies must be brought up as directed by the authorities.

okay then...

Or we could just accept that mothers make the choices they feel are in the best interests of their child and choosing to FF for whatever reason does not class as risking your babies health in the same way as giving them a coffee and cigarette with their fruit snack!

newpup · 19/08/2009 09:54

Why can we not just accept different choices and support each other!

We all just want healthy, happy children.

FuriousofTunbridgeWells · 19/08/2009 09:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Stayingsunnygirl · 19/08/2009 09:57

When ds1 was still tiny (not sure how old, but probably under 2 months) I met a teenage mum who'd been in the bed next to me in the postnatal ward. She, the baby (who'd been in SCBU following birth) and her mum were at the baby clinic, and the girl's mum proudly told me how the baby was already enjoying chocolate and eating off the corner of Granny's plate!

I was pretty gobsmacked, and told her to be sure and tell the HV this - passing the buck to the HV [cowardy custard emoticon].

Beanie is right - there needs to be far more education available for parents. And it is appalling that mothers who use formua aren't shown how to make up a bottle correctly - I learned how to do this as a student nurse, and when I lodged with a friend who had babies, but as far as I recall, there was no guidance given on the post natal ward when ds1 was born 16 (sixteen - my god I must be old ) years ago.

sabire · 19/08/2009 09:59

"FF does not risk the health of babies what utter rubbish!"

Tell that to the Royal College of Midwives. I'm sitting here looking at a textbook produced by them (on every student midwives reading list) which has a whole chapter on 'the risks of artificial feeding'.

Not to berate anyone's choice - it's simply acknowledging the facts. If you want to know more have a look at the NHS direct website - it's there in black and white for anyone to read.

"Breast feeding is a choice not a requirement! "

Yes - this is true.

TheDMshouldbeRivened · 19/08/2009 10:01

what risks?

FuriousofTunbridgeWells · 19/08/2009 10:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pooter · 19/08/2009 10:05

i posted this a while ago, but you might like to read it thedm

I found this hereits a pdf file of a meta-analysis of loads of breastfeeding studies - all in developed countries. It makes for interesting reading. I'll just cut and paste a few bits so you get the gist (and no, i wont cherrypick! )

We screened over 9,000 abstracts. Forty-three primary studies on infant health outcomes, 43
primary studies on maternal health outcomes, and 29 systematic reviews or meta-analyses that
covered approximately 400 individual studies were included in this review.
The association studies of breastfeeding and health outcomes mostly presented results as odds
ratios. To facilitate interpretation of the odds ratio, we chose to present these data as a reduction in
relative risk, estimated as ?(1 ? odds ratio) x 100%,? along with the corresponding 95% confidence
interval (CI).

Full term Infant Outcomes

Acute Otitis Media.
Our meta-analysis of five cohort studies of good and moderate
methodological quality showed that breastfeeding was associated with a significant reduction in the
risk of acute otitis media. Comparing ever breastfeeding with exclusive formula feeding, the risk
reduction of acute otitis media was 23 percent (95% CI 9% to 36%). When comparing exclusive
breastfeeding with exclusive formula feeding, either for more than 3 or 6 months duration, the
reduction was 50 percent (95% CI 30% to 64%). These results were adjusted for potential
confounders.

Atopic Dermatitis.
One good quality meta-analysis of 18 prospective cohort studies on full term
infants reported a reduction in the risk of atopic dermatitis by 42 percent (95% CI 8% to 59%) in
children with a family history of atopy and exclusively breastfed for at least 3 months compared with
those who were breastfed for less than 3 months. The meta-analysis did not distinguish between
atopic dermatitis of infancy (under 2 years of age) and persistent or new atopic dermatitis at older
ages. It has been postulated that the diagnosis of atopic dermatitis in patients younger than 2 years of
age could be attributed to infectious etiologies, which may be prevented by breastfeeding. However,
a stratified analysis by duration of followup found the risk reduction from breastfeeding was similar
in subjects with less than 2 years compared with more than 2 years of followup.

Gastrointestinal Infections.
For non-specific gastroenteritis, one systematic review identified
three primary studies that controlled for potential confounders. These studies reported that there was
a reduction in the risk of non-specific gastrointestinal infections during the first year of life in
breastfed infants from developed countries. But a summary adjusted estimate taking into account
potential confounders could not be determined because the studies did not provide usable quantitative
data. However, a recent case-control study from England that took into account the role of potential
confounders reported that infants who were breastfeeding had a 64 percent (95% CI 26% to 82%)
reduction in the risk of non-specific gastroenteritis compared with infants who were not
breastfeeding.

Lower Respiratory Tract Diseases.
The summary estimate from a good quality meta-analysis
of seven studies reported an overall 72 percent (95% CI 46% to 86%) reduction in the risk of
hospitalization due to lower respiratory tract diseases in infants less than 1 year of age who were
exclusively breastfed for 4 months or more. The results remained consistent after adjustment for
potential confounders.

Asthma.
The studies on asthma were equivocal. A previously published good quality metaanalysis
reported a moderate protective effect and four recent primary studies reaching mixed
conclusions, including two studies finding an increased risk of asthma associated with breastfeeding.
We updated the meta-analysis with the new studies. Our analysis showed that breastfeeding for at
least 3 months was associated with a 27 percent (95% CI 8% to 41%) reduction in the risk of asthma
in those subjects without a family history of asthma compared with those who were not breastfed.
For those with a family history of asthma, there was a 40 percent (95% CI 18% to 57%) reduction in
the risk of asthma in children less than 10 years of age who were breastfed for at least 3 months
compared with those who were not breastfed. However, the relationship between breastfeeding and
the risk of asthma in older children and adolescents remains unclear and will need further
investigation.

Cognitive Development. One well-performed sibling analysis and three prospective cohort
studies of full-term infants, all conducted in developed countries, adjusted their analyses specifically
for maternal intelligence. The studies found little or no evidence for an association between
breastfeeding in infancy and cognitive performance in childhood. Most of the published studies
adjusted their analyses for socioeconomic status and maternal education but not specifically for
maternal intelligence. For those studies that reported a significant effect after specific adjustment for
maternal intelligence, residual confounding from other factors such as different home environments
cannot be ruled out.

Obesity.
Three meta-analyses of good and moderate methodological quality reported an
association of breastfeeding and a reduction in the risk of obesity in adolescence and adult life
compared with those who were not breastfed. One study reported the reduction in the risk of
overweight/obesity in breastfeeders compared with non-breastfeeders was 24 percent (95% CI 14%
to 33%); another study reported 7 percent (95% CI 1% to 12%). Both of these estimates took into
account the role of potential confounders. Furthermore, they also showed that the magnitude of
association decreased when more confounders were entered into the analyses. The third study used
meta-regression and found a 4 percent reduction in the risk of being overweight in adult life for each
additional month of breastfeeding in infancy. Overall, there is an association between a history of
breastfeeding and a reduction in the risk of being overweight or obese in adolescence and adult life.
One should be cautious in interpreting all these associations because of the possibility of residual
confounding.

Risk of Cardiovascular Diseases.
Results from two moderate quality meta-analyses concluded
that there was a small reduction of less than 1.5 mm Hg in systolic blood pressures and no more than
0.5 mm Hg in diastolic blood pressures among adults who were breastfed in their infancy compared
with those who were formula-fed. The association weakened after stratification by study size,
suggesting the possibility of bias in the smaller studies.
One meta-analysis of cohort and case-control studies reported that there was a reduction in total
and LDL cholesterol levels by 7.0 mg/dL and 7.7 mg/dL, respectively, in adults who were breastfed
during infancy compared with those who were not. However, these findings were based on data from
adults with a wide age range. The analysis did not segregate the data according to gender and
potential confounders were not explicitly analyzed. Detailed information (e.g., fasting or non-fasting)
on the collection of specimen for cholesterol testing was not included. Because of these deficiencies,
the correct characterization of a relationship between breastfeeding and adult cholesterol levels
cannot be determined at this time.
One meta-analysis found little or no difference in all-cause and cardiovascular mortality between
adults who were breastfed during infancy and those who were not. There were possible biases and
limitations in the studies reviewed, however. Presence of statistical heterogeneity across studies
suggests that it may not have been appropriate to combine estimates from individual studies into one
summary estimate. Because of these reasons, no definitive conclusion could be drawn regarding the
relationship between a history of breastfeeding and cardiovascular mortality.
In summary, the relationship between breastfeeding in infancy and the risk of cardiovascular
diseases cannot be confidently characterized at this time and will need further investigation.

Type 1 Diabetes.
Two moderate quality meta-analyses suggest that breastfeeding for at least 3
months reduced the risk of childhood type 1 diabetes compared with breastfeeding for less than 3
months. One reported a 19 percent (95% CI 11% to 26%) reduction; the other reported a 27 percent
(95% CI 18% to 35%) reduction. In addition, findings from five of six studies published since the
meta-analyses reported similar results. However, these results must be interpreted with caution
because of the possibility of recall biases and suboptimal adjustments for potential confounders in the
studies.

Type 2 Diabetes.
In one well-performed meta-analysis of seven studies of various designs,
breastfeeding in infancy was associated with a 39 percent (95% CI 15% to 56%) reduced risk of type
2 diabetes in later life compared with those who were not. However, only three of seven studies
adjusted for all the important confounders such as birth weight, parental diabetes, socioeconomic
status, and individual or maternal body size. Though the crude and adjusted estimates did not differ
in these three studies, the lack of adjustments for potential confounders such as birth weight and
maternal factors by all studies could exaggerate the magnitude of an association.

Childhood Leukemia.
The published studies on childhood acute lymphocytic leukemia (ALL)
were equivocal; a good quality meta-analysis reported a moderate protective effect from
breastfeeding and the other good quality systematic review reached the opposite conclusion. We
conducted a meta-analysis including only good and fair quality case-control studies identified in the
systematic review, since the meta-analysis did not provide methodological quality grading of primary
studies. We found breastfeeding of at least 6 months duration was associated with a 19 percent (95%
CI 9% to 29%) reduction in the risk of childhood ALL. The previous meta-analysis also reported an
association between breastfeeding of at least 6 months duration and a 15 percent reduction (95% CI
2% to 27%) in the risk of acute myelogenous leukemia (AML). Overall there is an association
between a history of breastfeeding for at least 6 months duration and a reduction in the risk of both
leukemias (ALL and AML).

Infant Mortality.
One study of moderate methodological quality evaluated the relationship
between breastfeeding and infant mortality. The study reported a protective effect of breastfeeding in
reducing infant mortality after controlling for some of the potential confounders. However, in
subgroup analyses of the study, the only statistically significant association reported was between
?never breastfed? and Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) or the risk of injury-related deaths.
Because of the limited data in this area, the relationship between breastfeeding and infant mortality in
developed countries remains unclear. Further investigation is needed.

Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS).
We conducted a meta-analysis by including only
studies that reported clear definitions of exposure, outcomes, and results adjusted for well-known
confounders or risk factors for SIDS. Our meta-analysis of seven case-control studies found that a
history of breastfeeding was associated with a 36 percent (95% CI 19% to 49%) reduction in the risk
of SIDS compared to those without a history of breastfeeding.

me again There is also a section on preterm infants and the effects of BF on the mother. I didnt want to push my luck with trying to send such a HUMONGOUS post!

oh, and otitis media is ear infection

I am a little surprised actually at some of the supposed benefits (reduced risk of osteoporosis for example) that were not found to be statistically significant, but relieved to find that a lot of the wonders of breastfeeding that i have taken to be fact, without checking properly are actually true.
I always knew breastfeeding was brill etc, but its good to have the figures to back it up - even if some of them aren't as unequivocal as one would hope

pinkthechaffinch · 19/08/2009 10:07

and midwives and health visitors really should be showing or offering to show all mums how to make up FF. What if the mum can't read, or doesn't speak English?

The instructions on the side of my packet of C &G are in quite dense small print and the little pictures tbh aren't that clear.

weegiemum · 19/08/2009 10:10

Breastfeeding is associated with a reduced risk of many diseases in infants and mothers from developed countries.

Infants
Infections
Ear infections
50% reduced risk
GI infections
64% reduced risk
Pneumonia
72% reduced risk of hospitalization
Obesity
Reduces the risk of obesity by 4% for each month of breastfeeding

Allergies
Dermatitis ? 42% reduced risk
Asthma ? 40% reduced risk
Diabetes ? 39% reduced risk
Childhood Leukemia ? 19% reduced risk
SIDS ? 36% reduced risk

Preterm Infants
Necrotizing Entero Colitis ? absolute 5% reduced risk
Reduced risk range ? 4% to 82%
Because of the high case fatality rate, this 5% difference is a meaningful clinical outcome

Mothers
Cancer
Breast ? 28% reduced risk
Ovarian ? 21% reduced risk
Diabetes ? 12 % reduced risk

from this site

who got their data from here

I suppose you need to turn the stats on their heads though - as in FF gives a 50% increased risk of ear infection.

Nancy66 · 19/08/2009 10:11

Oh God I H A T E it when BF threads appear outside the BF forum - it just means all the nutters and obsessives from over there migrate over (do they sound some sort of alarm or something?) and start posting all their stats and pie charts over here.

TheDMshouldbeRivened · 19/08/2009 10:11

lucky they didn't test my kids. 3 breastfed ones had exzema, tummy bugs, asthma and ear infections. FF one has had none of those things

weegiemum · 19/08/2009 10:13

The point is Riven that children like yours would be included. These are overall risks, not individual anecdotes.

Nancy - I am neither an obsessive nor a nutter. Please don't be offensive.

scarletlilybug · 19/08/2009 10:13

Some potential risks of formual feeding:

? Gastroenteritis: 6 times more likely
? Respiratory diseases (bronchitis, pneumonia): 2 to 5 times more likely
? Allergies
? Otitis media (middle ear infection): 3 to 5 times more likely
? Obesity
? Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS): 3 to 5 times more likely
? Type-1 Diabetes: 2 to 7 times more likely
? Necrotising enterocolitis: 20 times more likely
? Inflammatory diseases of the intestine (ulcerative colitis, Crohn?s disease): 3 times more likely
? Poor development of jaw muscles and malocclusion
? IQ up to 8-10 points lower

There are other known health risks too, but it's too depressing to list everything.

Maybe if people thought more in terms of the "risks" of formula and less in terms of the "benefits" of breastfeeding then pressure would be brought to bear so that every woman who wished to breastfeed and was physically capable of doing so would get the support she needed to achieve this goal.

Rindercella · 19/08/2009 10:14

I thought there would be a thread on this. What the mw was saying made perfect sense - of course if a mother chooses not to b/f (for whatever reason), then she should be give advice and support on how to ff safely (ie sterilising and making up bottles).

However, GMTV's attitude on bf is really quite snide, the presenter's very loaded but when he said "we all know bfing is best, BUT...". Where the but was obviously a prelude as to exactly why bfing is not always best Also, they ended the programme with a viewer's comment "I have had 4 children and ff them all. They are all fine" coupled with rather smug looks from the presenters. Grr, just like the crappy comments on soaps about ffing being fine.

beanieb · 19/08/2009 10:14

Agree totally with what Newpup said. I am hoping to get pregnant and I am hoping to breastfeed but I would hate to think that someone would sit and judge me if for aome reason I was unable to breastfeed.

On the other hand I know of at least one woman in work who has decided to formula feed because they found the whole idea of breastfeeding 'icky' which I think is a bit of an odd attitude to have.

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