To still be BF my 4-year-old?

[NaturalMama]

Sounds really bad in the title. My first post on here after lurking for a very long time. I'm also posting this in Breast/Bottle Feeding but figured this would attract some honest opinions as well.

I've started to get quite a few snarky comments and dirty looks when people hear that I'm still breastfeeding my eldest. These are not from mere strangers but from dear close friends and immediate family.

My eldest is 4.2, going into reception and he has had access to 'minty' ( his word) whenever he likes since birth. At the moment he currently has it after breakfast (and after I've fed his sister), in place of and/or just before or after his afternoon kip around 2pm, and just after tea. Sometimes more, sometimes just once. He is very excited about going to school but he's always been a very very shy boy and we've had talks about him not having minty during the day but he seems okay with it. I've never tried to get him to stop as I think if he asks for it, he obviously needs the comfort. He's never had a dummy/comforter and shows no interest in bartering minty time for toys, sweets, etc.

I had a baby when he was 2 who passed away at 4 months old. I do admit that feeding my eldest was just as comforting for me as it was for him during that time, and I felt it wasn't fair on him to go cold turkey when he was having an emotional time as well.

My youngest is just gone 7 months and she feeds about 5 times a day, obviously between when DS has a go.

Family is starting to tease DS about it saying he's not a big boy and his school friends will think he's silly. It's a private thing and we are always alone when we do it (apart from DD and DH) but family/friends ask me if I've stopped yet and I feel a bit huffy about it.

I know he's not getting anything nutritionally out of it, but can I ask the Mumsnet jury what you think? Is it harmless/comforting for him especially at a time of upheaval (i.e. sister being born, loss of second, starting school) or is it time to give it up and if so - how on earth do I go about doing this? It's not about me babying him as I have another baby I can happily feed for at least another two years!

A kiss, cuddle and chat may comfort a child extremely well, but IME, it doesn't do it as quickly, effectively or easily as nursing does.

And as for the nutrition thing, my ds can't tolerate cows' or goats' milk, so in his case, breastmilk is the best thing for him. And there are NO other foods that contain the antibodies etc.

I said on the other thread that I believe that EBF is something that cannot be fully understood unless you have done it. Some of us "lactivists" (hate that phrase) can't imagine NOT nursing, the same way as those who are against it can't imagine feeding until age

Originally in this message I wrote 'pseud please tell me what you mean by that' but you know what? I got the responses that I wondered about, I've had a chat with DS, I've made a course of action - so thanks all. Don't think I'll be reading anymore as think it's ridiculous I have to defend myself on my first ever post.

Thanks to the women who gave me honest opinions and some advice. Much appreciated.

'A kiss, cuddle and chat may comfort a child extremely well, but IME, it doesn't do it as quickly, effectively or easily as nursing does.'

It just takes a bit more effort on the part of the parent-it seems extremely lazy to me to shove something in their mouth to solve whatever it is! Fine before they have the language, but not when they can talk, understand and have good reasoning powers.

"I just don't see why it is necessary to whip your boob out to comfort your child when a kiss and a cuddle and a chat will do extremely well."

Yes - a cuddle and a chat will do very well for some children, especially those for whom breastfeeding is not an option, but for many others breastfeeding is part of the normal way they interact with their mothers, and is especially comforting. Why do you have a problem with people doing this to the point where you feel the need to ridicule it by describing nursing as "whipping your boob out"? It's so infuriating - it's like you can't stop yourself ridiculing breastfeeding by making it sound absurd and grotesque.

"You lactivists seem to think that those of us who don't breastfeed, for whatever reason, seem to be denying our children emotionally as well as nutritionally."

If you think that breastfeeding is a satisfying and emotionally nurturing experience for children then logically you are going to believe that children who aren't breastfed are missing out on something pleasurable. That's not the same as saying that women who don't breastfeed have emotionally deficient relationships with their children!

"Formula does do the job, and while it might not have all the nutritional benefits of breastmilk, formula-fed babies are fine. They put on weight, they grow and they are still loved and cuddled and adored by their mothers just as much as those who are breastfed."

Yes - they are just as loved. But they still immunologically and developmentally disadvantaged by not getting breastmilk - and we shouldn't pretend that this is not true simply to protect the feelings of the many, many women who have struggled emotionally and physically with breastfeeding (always through no fault of their own).

"And, frankly, I think that those who continue to breastfeed long after it is nutritionally necessary are doing it more for their own benefit than their child's."

Well - your argument is that breastmilk is never nutritionally 'necessary' in any case, really, given that you think formula is an adequate substitute. If it's not 'necessary' why bother doing it in the first place, except if you feel it's something you want to do? But aren't you just indulging yourself then?

Do you think that mothers should forcibly stop children from breastfeeding, even when the child enjoys it and wants it? Just because it's not nutritionally 'necessary'? Seriously? Children breastfeed because they want to, not because their mothers make them. All breastfeeding mums I know with older babies/young children offer solids and other drinks. If their children didn't want to breastfeed they simply wouldn't do it!

Honestly - you must feel quite bitter about your own experience to begrudge other mothers and babies the pleasures of breastfeeding beyond the time that it's strictly 'necessary'.

I had various attempts at cutting down when ds was younger, and it sometimes took as much as an hour to calm ds into the same state that 5 minutes feeding did.

It was a no brainer to me.

Sense, not laziness.

And it wasn't a case of "shove something into his mouth". He wanted it, he needed it.

But like I said, it's not something that people can truly appreciate unless they have been there.

"shove something in their mouths"

Yet more language used to ridicule breastfeeding and make it sound emotionally abusive and ugly.

Agree sabire.

Haven't read all the posts, so someone has no doubt said this, but it's totally "normal" for humans to feed for 4 years.
I believe this is the usual age, anthropologically speaking when we feed 'till.
Don't let people tell it's wrong.

I just think it is very lazy-instead of talking about the problem and finding a solution, the older child is treated like a baby-with 'never mind -mummy is here have some milk'. Totally unnecessary-and not much different from the 'have a sweet approach'. I am going to leave the thread, but my opinion is that it says far more about the needs of the mother than the DC.

Oh god not that old tit-shoving crap again. You really have no clue what breastfeeding a toddler involves do you, piscesmoon?

Completely differnt from the have a sweet approach.

But you're away, so bye.

I have no idea why people think you are a troll.

I posted on the other thread, but found the link
www.kellymom.com/bf/bfextended/ebf-benefits.html#social
No evidence whatsoever for children having issues if extended bf, quite the opposite.

Booboo in our house

I think AIBU is not the most supportive thread tbh.

Why bother with touch at all.... really? Never mind holding your child - you can simply sit them down in front of you and talk it through!

Really piscesmoon,why are you assuming that a mother who bf a child who's upset is simply relying on breastfeeding alone to resolve what might be a complex emotional experience for the child?

Believe it or not, women who breastfeed an older child also.... talk to them... gasp! Sometimes you even talk to them while you are breastfeeding! And a child who is breastfed is able to come off the breast to answer you!

"Oh god not that old tit-shoving crap again"

Oh yes.

We're always going to have 'tit shoving', 'tit whipping', 'whopping them out', 'slamming them out' etc etc.

So revealing of the feelings of disgust that really lurk beneath so many of the mealy mouthed protestations of 'I'm all for breastfeeding but......'

See, as a 'lactivist' (is it only me who finds that a derogatory term?) I would never describe ff as 'shoving a bottle in its mouth' - especially on MN.

Why do some seem to think it's okay to say the equivalent to a bfer?

There is no pleasing some people - I'd never even heard of the term "lactivist" until a few weeks ago when I heard it used by a very militant pro-breastfeeder to describe herself on the Today programme. So if you don't like it, take it up with the likes of her.

"Honestly - you must feel quite bitter about your own experience to begrudge other mothers and babies the pleasures of breastfeeding beyond the time that it's strictly 'necessary'."

No, I am not bitter about my own experience of breastfeeding - wistful, yes, but not bitter. I'm delighted for those women who can breastfeed successfully and happily, but why anyone would want to continue breastfeeding a child that can walk up and ask for a boob, is beyond me and, judging by my straw poll of many of my friends earlier today, all of them too. I might be in the minority on this thread, but elsewhere I don't think I would be.

I was leaving but just to say that I agree totally ttalloo. I will leave out the word 'shove' but I would never offer a 4 yr old a bottle. I had a friend who worked in a school for very distrurbed children and they let them regress to babyhood with bottles because they missed that stage. A DC who has been bf since birth hasn't missed that stage and they are long ready to move on. The parent is not letting them and still treating them as a much younger DC. It is like still pushing them around in a buggy instead of walking, not letting them stay overnight with grandma without you etc. I bf while mine were babies but I gave up when they could walk and talk-they had moved on and I was not going to cling to the babystage just because I liked it. I think that although we are the minority on this thread ttalloo, we are the vast majority elsewhere-or OP wouldn't have posed the question.

"but why anyone would want to continue breastfeeding a child that can walk up and ask for a boob, is beyond me"

Can you explain how this argument works - why walking and talking automatically disqualifies a child from breastfeeding?

It seems a bit random to me.

I mean - toddlers breastfeed because it's part of their relationship with their mother and because breastmilk is the best drink for them. Why does being able to communicate and walk make breastmilk an unsuitable drink? And does their relationship with their mother change radically the minute they can walk, rather than bum shuffle across a room?

It seems quite cruel and weird really - you can ask for milk, therefore I'm not going to give it to you!

"and, judging by my straw poll of many of my friends earlier today, all of them too. I might be in the minority on this thread, but elsewhere I don't think I would be."

Well, maybe that's because you and your friends live in a culture where biologically normal breastfeeding (as it's been practiced since the dawn of human history and as it's still practiced in most of the world), has practically died out following decades of misinformation, destructive hospital practices and unethical commercial initiatives to persuade women that breastfeeding is an irrelevance.

I do think that people take only the parts out of primitive cultures that suits them! Yes they would bf for a long time, but before very long the boys would be initiated into male things and the mother wouldn't have much to do with them. If my young DS was going to be taken away and educated by the males of the tribe I expect I would cling to babyhood as long as possible! Luckily we have at least 18yrs. The 'baby' would be handed over to older sister or adolescent girl because the mother would have another baby. The MIL, much hated on a lot of these threads would be a very important person!

Probably repeating stuff that's already been said, but I'm not reading the whole thread as I know that it will make me angry.

I wouldn't worry at all about bf. It's unlikely to come up in conversation, and I don't think that it will matter even if it does. Dd goes to nursery school and still feeds at 3.6 yrs and it's never been a problem.

I'd be more worried about the fact that you say he still has a nap. This means that he's going to be absolutely shattered after a week at school!

"I bf while mine were babies but I gave up when they could walk and talk-they had moved on and I was not going to cling to the babystage"

So did your children self wean because they decided they didn't need to breastfeed any more?

Or did you pick a random time and decide that you wouldn't feed them anymore because they were 'too old'?

Look - you live in a culture where only very young babies are routinely breastfed. That doesn't mean that breastfeeding is only suitable or important for early infancy. It's just he way we have chosen to do things here, and frankly, judging on the evidence I see around me, I don't think the wholesale cultural move towards denying babies access to the breast for longer than a few weeks or months has resulted in a generation of emotionally secure, independent, well adjusted adults! We have astonishingly high levels of mental ill health and instability in this country, and some of the most dependent, useless adolescents in the world. Not putting it all down to a lack of breastfeeding of course, just trying to make the point that if there was any evidence that stopping children from breastfeeding long before they themselves would choose to wean results in happier, more independent and better adjusted individuals, I've not seen in. In fact, what evidence there is (for example this study from the Telethon Instutute [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061027184200.htm here] )suggests that longer term breastfeeding is linked to significantly better mental health and less delinquency in later childhood.

I actually also think it's quite insulting to those of us who've continued to breastfeed beyond a year to imply that we're trying to arrest our children's development by keeping them as babies. All three of my children are emotionally very confident and independent. None of them have needed dummies, comfort blankets, night lights etc etc. How would prematurely weaning them before they were ready to stop have helped them feel more confident and secure? Meeting children's emotional needs for comfort gives them confidence and the security to move out into the world. Breastfeeding is part of that.

piscesmoon - seriously, what are you going on about re: tribal culture?

I've lived in developing countries, and I can tell you that children in these places don't cling to babyhood longer than children do in this country, no matter how long they are breastfed for.

piscesmoon

that really is the most uninformed pile of shite filled with bigotted nonsense about something that you clearly know absoloutely nothing about
I have a son who has SN and i find your comparing bfing to behavioural and emotional issues fucking unbelievably crass.

I am not a lactivist. I don't expect anyone else to make the same choices as I do. I assume that the vast majority of parents are trying to do the best for their child and doing it in the way that they see fit. I would never criticise a parent for ffing just because it is notthe choice I made. I would not attribute any negative connotation to their choosing to do so.

Yet you persist in accusing everyone who has made a different choice from you of everything from being lazy to activively arresting their childs development.
Why would you do that. Why would you feel that it is appropriate to attribute any such thing when you have not done it, never discussed what it is like. Why do you use aggressive and demeaning terms for breast feeding an older child just because you would not do it? Does that really seeem to you the appropriate way to find out about this issue and to understand other parents who, just like you, are doing their best for their child?

I have read a lot of prejudiced crap on this thread. But having my choice comapred to inflicting some kind of emtional damage on my child by attempting to retard their behavioural development is pretty scummy.

I have a child who is very severelly disabled. You may find it witty to make that as a comparison but I think it speaks volumes about you in a way that perhaps you didn't intend

round of applause for sabire (and mawbroon). especially the bit about insulting and babyfying.

and i am horrified that you have been accused of trolling nm. because bf past some arbitrary point = freak in some people's minds i suppose.

I am a BF peer supporter, and I have several friends who BF their larger toddlers (2 and 3yo). Honestly, I think by the time they get to reception, it might be time to stop.
Not because BF a 4yo is wrong, but simply because society in the UK considers extended BF to be a bit abnormal and a slightly wierd (THANKS SO MUCH LITTLE BRITAIN AND THE TRUTH ABOUT BF PROGRAM!)

Anyhow, I know from personal experience just how cruel small children can unintentionally be (and how much more cruel their mothers can be when it gets out on the school grapevine) Have you considered maybe expressing and giving it to him in a sippy cup while having a nice cuddle on the sofa? That way he gets the reassurance and comfort, and all the nutritional benefits too, and some special him time with mummy.

I am sorry but I think that you are reading all sorts of things into my post that I didn't mean and didn't even cross my mind.