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to not understand why so many poor people... PART 2

1000 replies

nybom · 10/08/2009 11:59

As things have calmed down a little now, despite DH getting involved , I will try and explain once more what I meant to express by OP.

It boils down to:

I have noticed that in this society a lot of money is spent unwisely/for luxuries and increasingly so. This does indeed occur, as many of you have pointed out, regardless of level of income, throughout the social stratum. What I don't understand is, how the very poor people spend/are able to spend money on luxuries whilst compromising on the basic requirements (such as nutritious food for their children). The examples I mentioned were from my circle of friends, not generalisations.

I was bringing up examples from poor people because if a wealthy person fritters his income away for luxuries it doesn?t affect basic requirements such as food, (at least I have never ever come across anybody), however if you don't have any money to spend, it does.

Before you get enraged, I'm not addressing poor people as a whole, I don?t mean disabled people or people with poor health (mental or physical), nor people made redundant, nor women (or men) left by their partners, or any one else who unexpectedly and by now fault of his or her own has got him- or herself into that situation. Neither do I mean poor people who indulge themselves with their own saved money or money given to them by someone else.

I don't think it is fair that MNs stereotype "the rich", and have a go at them. But how dare anyone say anything negative about "the poor". That is hypocritical.

I only listed how I spend my money to demonstrate that it can be done, not to say how ?great? I am. If I can do it anybody can.

Please don?t make any assumptions what I do or not do in RL to actively help make things better and support people in need...
And I have a great life, thank you, and not a boring one, either. But curiosity is human nature (just look at the topics of women?s magazines, don?t any of you buy those?), and if you walk through life with open eyes, you just notices things. Also, my academic background is in sociology, so I have a genuine interest in wanting to understand why people do what they do. No finger pointing or accusing intended.

Finally, I?d like to respond to some specific points which have been repeatedly been raised:

RE car engine: it is an absolute myth that it is cheaper to leave the engine on rather than turn it off and on again a short while later (ask any car mechanic). In some countries you risk a fine if you don?t turn your engine off at (certain) traffic lights/road works! They?re not doing that for the sake of it. It?s just unnecessary pollution and a waist of money! It is not a matter of ?treating yourself? if the husband waits in the car with running engine and the wife goes shopping in a supermarket (and it is not extremely cold or hot (aircon))! It?s just stupid. I don?t imply you should turn your engine off at stop and go traffic jams, but those where you come to a standstill, where after 2 or 3 minutes of nothing happening it would be wise to turn the engine off (even if you had to turn it on again in 1 minute it would save money). Same with ?popping in? at shops/dropping friend of etc...

RE kids parties: there?s nothing wrong with kids parties per se! Of course it's nice to create something fun for them. But why have branded accessories right down to the bags the kids take home? Again, extra expenditures and extra waste. A nice party isn?t made nice by spending loads! A (simple) selfmade cake (not one of those branded one with loads of artificial colouring, ugh), and a couple of party games is all the children need to be really really HAPPY. The bags are thrown away, as are most of the contents, it is cheeper and easier to use kitchen towel or plastic bags for sandwhiches plus you can choose what you put in the bags.

RE cut fruit: It is still absolutely beyond me why you would spend twice as much money (or more) for precut fruit (not tins!) if you could easily cut it yourself, particulary if you are poor and only have a 5 pound shopping budget.

The UK has become a very materialistic society (but that is a different topic), maybe I just recognise it more as I?m from a different cultural background.

OP posts:
curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 19:41

kemble - I'm confused about chips too. I think the idea is that pre cut fruit and veg is better than Maccy D's or chips but I'm not sure if that means the undeserving are allowed more or less of it...

TheGashlycrumbTinies · 10/08/2009 19:43

Ilove can't read your post without commenting, not really sure what to say, without sounding patronising. So , and good luck with the final 3 stone.

teamcullen · 10/08/2009 19:43

Riven I think if your going for coffee and cakes, I hope its a real greasy spoon cafe and not a posh coffee shop

sarah293 · 10/08/2009 19:45

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nybom · 10/08/2009 19:47

curiosity "until you know them"

hello??? that is exacgtly the point. i am referring to friends, so i do know the people! right down to how much benefits they get and how much they spend on what!

i don't generally judge people i don't know, but certain behaviours such as leaving engine running for 20 min whilst popping into supermarket are - imo - disgusting, no matter what background that person has.

OP posts:
springlamb · 10/08/2009 19:48

God Riven - there's no need for you to be poor anymore girl.
Not if you've perfected a method of growing ready-chipped taters.
I'll start writing your blurb for Dragons Den now!

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 19:48

yes riven, be careful not to give your pov status away through your attire. The lasers might get you

Get one of those self-made chocolate cakes that sings and cooks itself with free gas/leccy!

K999 · 10/08/2009 19:48

Gosh, in the winter I turn my car on 20 mins before I leave the house...pleny time to heat up the leather seats and defrost the car...bliss...

FAQtothefuture · 10/08/2009 19:53

how do you know exactly what they spend and exactly how much they get? Do you go rifling through their filing boxes and bins when you visit and have a private detective hired to follow their every move???

I have several very good friends and I at most only have a vague idea of how they spend their money or what their income is.

juicyjolly · 10/08/2009 19:53

nybom....I would give up if I were you, it seems that having a serious discussion with some people is a bit beyond them.
You know the sort I mean.......always taking the piss to make themselves feel better.

Why dont you leave them to it?

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 19:54

nybom - my point is that all poor people are deserving because what makes you deserve help is being poor. I think if you thought about it you'd find it hard to find someone who didn't fulfil your criteria once you'd spoken to them. You do judge people you don't know. Your entire thread is judging people you don't know. At least have the balls to stick to what you say. If you're going to judge don't pretend you aren't. You're like those annoying people who say something mean deliberately and then follow it up with 'only joking' or 'no offence'

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 19:54

Teaching a dog to read is a pointless endeavour.

sarah293 · 10/08/2009 19:54

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curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 19:56

juicy - maybe you should read the other thread.

josiejo79 · 10/08/2009 19:56

"certain behaviours such as leaving engine running for 20 min whilst popping into supermarket are - imo - disgusting, no matter what background that person has"

I would think that you would have to be very stupid "Poor person" to leave the engine of your car running while you pop into the supermarket for 20 minutes, surely some other "poor person" might steal it, or at least try to light their 40 cigarettes of the exhaust pipe!

clemette · 10/08/2009 19:56

nybom whilst you're here could you please tell your husband that his grasp of basic economics is flawed. If someone pays 11% of their income in national insurance and the employers match it, it does not mean that people are paying 20% contributions - they are paying 11%.
The government tops up NI contributions to pay for the NHS, this does not mean that we pay 30% tax to support the health service.

This has been bugging me, but is such a minor point that I am just posting to fill the thread. He is still wrong though (and I knew i was right about the petrol thing - do you think either of you will ever acknowledge the mistakes you have made?)

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 19:57

Yes, and the OP (and her spouse) have been so willing to engage in a serious discussion of any sort.

Tamarto · 10/08/2009 19:57

'but certain behaviours such as leaving engine running for 20 min whilst popping into supermarket are - imo - disgusting, no matter what background that person has.'

That'd be a very trusting one to leave a car for 20 minutes with the engine running.

You call people your friends yet slag them off online, i hope i don't know you i really do.

Now back to the matters in hand, i'd kill for some chocolate cake, i'd happily not feed the children for some oh for the day when i can eat crap nice things again.

MollieO · 10/08/2009 19:57

Is the OP from New York? I used to live there and there as no waste there at all. No sirree. I only got woken up every day at 5am by the nice men driving the dust carts as they knew I'd forget to set my alarm.

Is the OP in a the virtual equivalent of stocks and cannot get out until they have generated a number of silly threads?

sarah293 · 10/08/2009 20:00

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springlamb · 10/08/2009 20:01

My single sister was on benefits for the first 5 years of her son's life. However, it was very hard to tell.
This was because my parents helped her out a lot. Actually, they helped her out so much that when dad died last year we realised she had not paid her own car tax or MOT since 1995.
She used to do my ironing when the dc were little and I would put a tenner of petrol in her car. She used to look after ds in the mornings when I was working nights and I would buy her 40 fags.
My sister and BIL are electric appliance freaks and always passed their old ones onto her, so she always had a modern telly.
You can't possibly know how everyone comes by everything they have.

Tamarto · 10/08/2009 20:01

juicyjolly is almost as funny as trickerg. Almost but not quite i wonder who is poorer out of those two.

but not for long as i have better precut fruit to eat things to do

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 20:06

'What I don't understand is, how the very poor people spend/are able to spend money on luxuries whilst compromising on the basic requirements (such as nutritious food for their children).'

You asked this. And people told you, in the last thread and this one. Over and over. About how a lot of people you see like this are in debt, buy things from catalogues or get Provident loans, have friends or family who give them things or help pay their bills, etc.

This has all fallen on deaf ears.

Then in the next sentence you write, 'The examples I mentioned were from my circle of friends, not generalisations. '

Then later you say you've already discussed the matter with these freinds.

So, like lljk, the question goes to follow: why on Earth do you hope to achieve by starting yet another thread about this?

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 20:09

expat - I think there's only one explanation. Nybom wants MN to like her.

FAQtothefuture · 10/08/2009 20:11

what a terrifying thought - all of MN being like her!!

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