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to not understand why so many poor people... PART 2

1000 replies

nybom · 10/08/2009 11:59

As things have calmed down a little now, despite DH getting involved , I will try and explain once more what I meant to express by OP.

It boils down to:

I have noticed that in this society a lot of money is spent unwisely/for luxuries and increasingly so. This does indeed occur, as many of you have pointed out, regardless of level of income, throughout the social stratum. What I don't understand is, how the very poor people spend/are able to spend money on luxuries whilst compromising on the basic requirements (such as nutritious food for their children). The examples I mentioned were from my circle of friends, not generalisations.

I was bringing up examples from poor people because if a wealthy person fritters his income away for luxuries it doesn?t affect basic requirements such as food, (at least I have never ever come across anybody), however if you don't have any money to spend, it does.

Before you get enraged, I'm not addressing poor people as a whole, I don?t mean disabled people or people with poor health (mental or physical), nor people made redundant, nor women (or men) left by their partners, or any one else who unexpectedly and by now fault of his or her own has got him- or herself into that situation. Neither do I mean poor people who indulge themselves with their own saved money or money given to them by someone else.

I don't think it is fair that MNs stereotype "the rich", and have a go at them. But how dare anyone say anything negative about "the poor". That is hypocritical.

I only listed how I spend my money to demonstrate that it can be done, not to say how ?great? I am. If I can do it anybody can.

Please don?t make any assumptions what I do or not do in RL to actively help make things better and support people in need...
And I have a great life, thank you, and not a boring one, either. But curiosity is human nature (just look at the topics of women?s magazines, don?t any of you buy those?), and if you walk through life with open eyes, you just notices things. Also, my academic background is in sociology, so I have a genuine interest in wanting to understand why people do what they do. No finger pointing or accusing intended.

Finally, I?d like to respond to some specific points which have been repeatedly been raised:

RE car engine: it is an absolute myth that it is cheaper to leave the engine on rather than turn it off and on again a short while later (ask any car mechanic). In some countries you risk a fine if you don?t turn your engine off at (certain) traffic lights/road works! They?re not doing that for the sake of it. It?s just unnecessary pollution and a waist of money! It is not a matter of ?treating yourself? if the husband waits in the car with running engine and the wife goes shopping in a supermarket (and it is not extremely cold or hot (aircon))! It?s just stupid. I don?t imply you should turn your engine off at stop and go traffic jams, but those where you come to a standstill, where after 2 or 3 minutes of nothing happening it would be wise to turn the engine off (even if you had to turn it on again in 1 minute it would save money). Same with ?popping in? at shops/dropping friend of etc...

RE kids parties: there?s nothing wrong with kids parties per se! Of course it's nice to create something fun for them. But why have branded accessories right down to the bags the kids take home? Again, extra expenditures and extra waste. A nice party isn?t made nice by spending loads! A (simple) selfmade cake (not one of those branded one with loads of artificial colouring, ugh), and a couple of party games is all the children need to be really really HAPPY. The bags are thrown away, as are most of the contents, it is cheeper and easier to use kitchen towel or plastic bags for sandwhiches plus you can choose what you put in the bags.

RE cut fruit: It is still absolutely beyond me why you would spend twice as much money (or more) for precut fruit (not tins!) if you could easily cut it yourself, particulary if you are poor and only have a 5 pound shopping budget.

The UK has become a very materialistic society (but that is a different topic), maybe I just recognise it more as I?m from a different cultural background.

OP posts:
juicyjolly · 10/08/2009 20:13

O.K. I have read the other .

I have to admit that what was said is pretty accurate for a lot of people

I dont really give a shit what people do with their money but when I work six days a week and cant afford;
a car
a plasma tv
holidays every year
designer clothes
getting pissed on a regular basis
and so on and so on.........

If you just stopped the pissing about and think about it she is right.

I am sick to fcking death of working my tits off and struggling when some on the dole on sick pay seem to be having a fcking ball!

ilove · 10/08/2009 20:16

Yes, JuicyJolly, I had such a ball on benefits

clemette · 10/08/2009 20:17

Yawn. As was said on the other thread, if life on the dole is so brillinat why don't you stop "working your tits off" and start going to the pub in your slippers.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 20:19

no juicy, she's not right because:

  1. We (the general population) don't get to tell other people what they can do with their money.
  2. We don't know what other people have or how they've got it.
  3. You'd be much happier in your own life if you focused on the nice things you had that what you think other people have i.e. The problem is with you.
Tamarto · 10/08/2009 20:20

I take it back you are just as funny as the other poster.

You have no idea how 'these people' have anything.

You only have to read springlambs post to see that, but don't let facts stop you from your boring little rant.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 20:27

so...

where were we?

FAQtothefuture · 10/08/2009 20:28

juicy - I dn't have any of those things either........and I'm on benefits.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 20:28

I think Riven was eating magic cake with the car running...

sarah293 · 10/08/2009 20:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

juicyjolly · 10/08/2009 20:32

Tomarto.........not trying to be funny! You obviously miss the point!

curiosity........The general population (working of course) would not expect to be worse off than ANYONE on benefits.
When some are buying new cars and going away for a weekend or a bloody fortnight and have not worked a day in their life, then yes it does make me UNhappy.
Is it still my problem? Or am I wrong and everyone on benefits deserves all the luxuries life has to offer?

Oh Yes and the reason I dont stop working and go to the pub in my slippers (whatever that is supposed to mean) is because I have pride.

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 20:33

'I have to admit that what was said is pretty accurate for a lot of people

I dont really give a shit what people do with their money but when I work six days a week and cant afford;
a car
a plasma tv
holidays every year
designer clothes
getting pissed on a regular basis
and so on and so on.........

If you just stopped the pissing about and think about it she is right. '

I am sick to fcking death of working my tits off and struggling when some on the dole on sick pay seem to be having a fcking ball!

I guess I'll agree to disagree then.

Because DH and I work our arses off, can't afford any of that except the car which is essential as there is no bus out here and we got it for free from his folks as it's their old car, but still don't give a rat's arse what people on benefits do with their money.

I honestly have other things to worry about to notice if people are eating pre-cut fruit, ffs!

When my children get invited to a party, I'm very honoured. We go and they enjoy themselves on the bouncy castle and I don't really care where the cake's from because it's a fun occassion for them and I talk to the other parents and try to make new friends.

We take the party bag and say thank you for inviting us and enjoy the things in there.

I've gotten lifts off people on benefits when our old banger's in the garage and it beats having to stay home or walk 3 miles along the road when some of it has no footpath.

I've gotten lifts from people on benefits to to go FarmFoods which is really far away from here whilst my DH was at work and I'm really thankful they thought of me and asked if I need to go on a shop whilst the wee ones were in nursery/school.

I've gotten bags of clothes from people on benefit that go on my son's back.

They're my friends, I wouldn't dream of starting petty threads about their personal lives.

5inthebed · 10/08/2009 20:35

Juicy, we couldn't afford any of those things when both of us were working. We only have our plasma TV as I bought it out of my redundancy pay. You don't know the reason behind how some people have the things they in their houses. The TV we had before was given to us off a family member and was powered by coal

juicyjolly · 10/08/2009 20:36

Riven......yes I know it is shit being on benefits, I have been there, but when it gets to the point were being on benefits is more beneficial than having a job then something is definitely wrong!

FAQtothefuture · 10/08/2009 20:38

so you didn't read the last thread then did you?

Where it was explaine that working poor are even worse off than those on benefits.

That doesn't mean those on benefits are loaded - quite the contrary - but that life as the working poor is an even harder life.

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 20:38

Just today, DH got home from work and took the kids to the play park and saw some people we know there.

And found out one of DD1's classmate's mum is now a lone parent.

I wouldn't dream of asking her or trying to find out what happened to her relationship, if he left or she did or whatever.

Must have been really painful and gut-wrenching for her she's got a lovely son. I'd be proud for my daughter's to take up with a beautiful lad like that.

I'm so glad DD1 will be in his composite class. She's a bit shy and although he's the year above her he's very protective of her, like an older brother.

I don't even know if the mum is on benefits just now because it wouldn't have crossed my mind to pry into her personal life, but I've seen her around a lot so I reckon maybe she's no longer able to work as her partner's not in the picture anymore.

Honestly, I can't imagine how a person can't feel compassion for someone and still call them a friend.

clemette · 10/08/2009 20:38

juicy i assume that because you have read the other thread you would know all about going to the pub in your slippers. Or perhaps you didn't read it; perhaps you would prefer to remain ignorant of the facts.

(PS I don't have a plasma TV - but that's because I think they are a bit naff... same for designer clothes ... and getting pissed)

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 20:39

juicy - how do you know what 'people on benefits' are getting, where it is from etc? It is your problem because you are unhappy with your life. That is what your posts are really about. I have never ever met a mythical person on benefits who had any of the things you are listing. Have you actually met one?

juicyjolly · 10/08/2009 20:43

Its not a matter of being petty, its a matter of this country being a bloody joke when it comes down to a working person struggling to get through the week and pay rent and council tax without ending up being evicted or taken to court because their wages dont cover the essentials.

The point is being on benefits should not mean having a job is a step down economically speaking!

Tamarto · 10/08/2009 20:44

So because you are on benefits you have to check and see if those you may or may not know have any of the things you listed before accepting them as a gift from someone?

Heaven forbid someone does something nice for you as you'll be judged as a, what exactly.

You sound quite jealous you know.

Tamarto · 10/08/2009 20:45

'a matter of this country being a bloody joke when it comes down to a working person struggling to get through the week and pay rent and council tax without ending up being evicted or taken to court because their wages dont cover the essentials.'

Yes maybe but that isn't the fault of people on benefits, the ones that go on holiday or otherwise.

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 20:46

We are working poor. And we'd be better off apart and on benefits.

But I think harbouring ire at people on benefits, for whatever reason, is mis-directed.

The problem is successive governments that allowed the housing bubble to grow so great that the cost of shelter is now vastly disproportianate from even the average wage, much less those of us on low incomes, for overhauling tenancy law so that private renting is expensive and incredibly insecure, for their policies on social housing including right to buy, for council tax and amazing increases in council tax.

The cost of property is responsible for many many problems, including environmental ones as many are literally forced to live far from places of work just to keep a roof over their family's heads.

I blame government-by-target, an imbecilic idea conceived by people who claim to have above imbecilic-intelligence.

I don't blame people who are just as badly off as I am.

I blame people who should have known better but just don't fucking care.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 20:46

juicy - you are making a completely different point now. Things being worse for the working poor than those on benefits has nothing to do with how the poor spend their money.

LittleMissMummy · 10/08/2009 20:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 20:52

Exactly, curiosity!

We are a working poor family with now 70 points on the social housing list.

We have gotten nowhere with finding a private landlord who will take WTC into account as part of our income and partial DSS.

So we will soon be homeless.

Does that make me angry at people on benefits who go on the lash?

No.

It makes me angry that our wage is taxed to the point where we even need this shit!

If we were allowed to keep more of the paltry sum we earn things would be different.

But instead it goes to bail out banks, to send the boys from this town to get blown to bits in Afghanistan because there's not a lot of opportunity for them here and they are nothing but poor white fodder for The Man's sick game of chess, to pay for MP pensions and moat cleaners and MP wives to take taxis to Harrod's, etc. etc.

THAT is what pisses me off!

Not pre-cut fruit that some fucker gets paid £5.80/hour to cut up and ensure it gets in a bag and on the shelf so he can stump up his 10p tax if he's single.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 20:53

littlemissmummy - the rage this thread provokes is yes, uncontainable BUT your tone and language is a bit offensive.

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