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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not understand why so many poor people... PART 2

1000 replies

nybom · 10/08/2009 11:59

As things have calmed down a little now, despite DH getting involved , I will try and explain once more what I meant to express by OP.

It boils down to:

I have noticed that in this society a lot of money is spent unwisely/for luxuries and increasingly so. This does indeed occur, as many of you have pointed out, regardless of level of income, throughout the social stratum. What I don't understand is, how the very poor people spend/are able to spend money on luxuries whilst compromising on the basic requirements (such as nutritious food for their children). The examples I mentioned were from my circle of friends, not generalisations.

I was bringing up examples from poor people because if a wealthy person fritters his income away for luxuries it doesn?t affect basic requirements such as food, (at least I have never ever come across anybody), however if you don't have any money to spend, it does.

Before you get enraged, I'm not addressing poor people as a whole, I don?t mean disabled people or people with poor health (mental or physical), nor people made redundant, nor women (or men) left by their partners, or any one else who unexpectedly and by now fault of his or her own has got him- or herself into that situation. Neither do I mean poor people who indulge themselves with their own saved money or money given to them by someone else.

I don't think it is fair that MNs stereotype "the rich", and have a go at them. But how dare anyone say anything negative about "the poor". That is hypocritical.

I only listed how I spend my money to demonstrate that it can be done, not to say how ?great? I am. If I can do it anybody can.

Please don?t make any assumptions what I do or not do in RL to actively help make things better and support people in need...
And I have a great life, thank you, and not a boring one, either. But curiosity is human nature (just look at the topics of women?s magazines, don?t any of you buy those?), and if you walk through life with open eyes, you just notices things. Also, my academic background is in sociology, so I have a genuine interest in wanting to understand why people do what they do. No finger pointing or accusing intended.

Finally, I?d like to respond to some specific points which have been repeatedly been raised:

RE car engine: it is an absolute myth that it is cheaper to leave the engine on rather than turn it off and on again a short while later (ask any car mechanic). In some countries you risk a fine if you don?t turn your engine off at (certain) traffic lights/road works! They?re not doing that for the sake of it. It?s just unnecessary pollution and a waist of money! It is not a matter of ?treating yourself? if the husband waits in the car with running engine and the wife goes shopping in a supermarket (and it is not extremely cold or hot (aircon))! It?s just stupid. I don?t imply you should turn your engine off at stop and go traffic jams, but those where you come to a standstill, where after 2 or 3 minutes of nothing happening it would be wise to turn the engine off (even if you had to turn it on again in 1 minute it would save money). Same with ?popping in? at shops/dropping friend of etc...

RE kids parties: there?s nothing wrong with kids parties per se! Of course it's nice to create something fun for them. But why have branded accessories right down to the bags the kids take home? Again, extra expenditures and extra waste. A nice party isn?t made nice by spending loads! A (simple) selfmade cake (not one of those branded one with loads of artificial colouring, ugh), and a couple of party games is all the children need to be really really HAPPY. The bags are thrown away, as are most of the contents, it is cheeper and easier to use kitchen towel or plastic bags for sandwhiches plus you can choose what you put in the bags.

RE cut fruit: It is still absolutely beyond me why you would spend twice as much money (or more) for precut fruit (not tins!) if you could easily cut it yourself, particulary if you are poor and only have a 5 pound shopping budget.

The UK has become a very materialistic society (but that is a different topic), maybe I just recognise it more as I?m from a different cultural background.

OP posts:
LoveaSugarRush · 10/08/2009 19:00

nybom;

you have to except that mumsnet is fairly liberal/left wing...(very few right wing views on here)....you're on a road to nowhere with this one....i'd give up if i was you.

nybom · 10/08/2009 19:03

expat no. if you had read what i wrote you wouldn't make silly assumptions. where did i say my country was better???

OP posts:
curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 19:03

yes, but then one of us deserving might accidentally ingest the tip of an undeserving pov's finger!!!

ilove · 10/08/2009 19:05

I might be the kind of person Nybom will like...

17 years ago there was a lady on the street where I lived, she was grossly overweight and lived in one purple tracksuit that she had bought from a chainstore-overfill shop for £1. Actually I tell a lie, she had two of them the same and wore them constantly, they were a size 28.

She had a baby and spent her whole day walking into town to get bits of food an back again. had split with her violent husband who still terrorised her and in the end the council/police moved her to another shitty council estate for her own safety. She didn't bath as she couldn't afford the hot water, and she lived on 9p packets of biscuits as she couldn't afford food for herself. Her baby ate mainly cheap canned foods, and didn't have his clothes changed very often either as she couldn't afford the soap powder/electric to was them very often. Her electric and gas were on token meters meaning that no money = no leccy/heat.

She had £72 a week in benefits coming in and £68 a week went out on debts her ex had left her with, BEFORE she started buying food and clothes.

She had no friends, was greasy haired, unkempt, unwashed and yes, smelly. The baby wasn;'t a very happy little boy either as she was so depressed and down she barely smiled at him let alone was able to buy him toys etc.

See, OP, no one wanted to know her then and, some may say, deservedly...who wants to be friends with the fat, smelly, greasy haired monosyllabic person and her dirty baby?

Fast forward 16 years......

her son is just finishing his A level first year and is set to go to Uni. She has lost 10 stones (3 to go), and lives in a house worth £550,000. She has 4 children altogether, works fulltime from home and they are all happy, clean, well-to-do and have a lovely life. She worked her arse off starting with packing little plastic tubs of drawing pins at home, 2.5p for every tub counted, filled, lidded, labelled and packed into boxes of 12. Progressed to moderating chat-rooms through the night online and then promoted to Sales Team Leader on a different side of the company.

Who helped her get herself sorted? Abso-fucking-lutely no one.

I DID IT MYSELF BECAUSE SANCTIMONIOUS PEOPLE LIKE YOU LOOKED DOWN ON ME WHEN I WAS AT MY LOWEST EBB.

I bet you'd smile at me and want to know me now though....

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 19:05

I read what you wrote! I understand English is not your first language, that is the only explanation I can come up with for WHY you do NOT seem to understand the nuances implied in the language you use in your posts. Really the only way I can see it. Of course, you won't reveal where you are from so this may be a guess.

But in the English language your tone is conveyed in how you write.

And yours is pissing people off. Do you just not see that? Are you still not comprehending that after over a thousands posts?

Hell, I speak three languages fluently and write four, and it's patently obvious early on if an error of nuance has been committed.

sarah293 · 10/08/2009 19:06

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curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 19:07

lol at 5inthbed! The deserving rich could buy the cows for the undeserving poor, then the undeserving poor could then churn some butter and make some cheese for the deserving.

ilove · 10/08/2009 19:08

Oh, but by the way...Nybom, I don't want to know you. Thanks anyway!

nickschick · 10/08/2009 19:11

I cant bear to read this thread ....but I can rest til I put my 2 pennorth in ...

ilove - great stuff!!! u deserve what you have and well done you!!

Im not wealthy but I dont resent anyone buying what they like with their money but how can you discuss this when in a very real world just this weekend I came across a child begging for food,whod had nothing to eat for 3 days.

teamcullen · 10/08/2009 19:15

Nybom... I didnt read the whole thread, I didnt need to to make a comment on your opening post!

I was mearly commenting on your list of who is excluded from your list of the deserving poor and expessing a view on why others who are appanently not in this catorgory might be.

I thorght you wanted opinions into understanding why the poor acted like this! Having first hand Knowledge of being in this situation and being guilty of doing things on your list of crimes, I wanted to share this with you in order to help you understand. I gave you an example of how it was and still is for me.

So as seem as your not really bothered in my opinion I will just take the piss out of your thread instead.

curiosity I had precut veg. Does that count I dont think Im in the deserving catogory because I dont agree with Nybom

5inthebed · 10/08/2009 19:19

ilove, I have tears in my eyes reading what you just wrote.

THAT nobo nybom, is the kind of person you are being nasty about! Not every "poor" person spends their benefits on drink/cigarettes and pre-cut fruit!

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 19:20

teamcullen - I'm not sure about the precut veg... I would imagine it'd be up to nybom whether this kind of behaviour was acceptable. Then she'd have to look at whether or not you were poor and whether or not you had done something to deserve poverty...

trickerg · 10/08/2009 19:21

I totally agree. I think most of the other posters are being unreasonable. Exactly - why buy pre-cut fruit if you don't have a good income - all you need is a knife (reusable) and fruit off a tree (or even out of a plastic bag). Don't be so lazy, people!

And handbags - how many do you need? A handbag is a thing to put stuff in so you can carry it around easily. You do not need co-ordinated bags/summer bags/winter bags/bags with expensive labels.....no-one needs them - you are being EXPLOITED!!!!!!

Tamarto · 10/08/2009 19:24

trickerg - you are funny.

sarah293 · 10/08/2009 19:28

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curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 19:30

riven, no some povs do. I distinctly remember having approx 20 million handbags when I was one.

sarah293 · 10/08/2009 19:32

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nybom · 10/08/2009 19:33

ilove is exactly NOT the person i'm talking about! she had an abusive partner, did the best she could in her situation and most of all, she cared for her baby - that is totally the oposite of person who i mean. i would never ever have looked down at her, never. i had and have friends like that (those are not the ones i was referring to in OP). if you believe i would, you've got me totally totally wrong.

OP posts:
curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 19:34

constantly running car engine?

teamcullen · 10/08/2009 19:35

I think I best scrape the veg back of my DCs plate. I really dont think they deserve it.

Better to give it to the scabby dog down the street, he definatly deserves it. He's provided a nice warm home to thousands of fleas and also provided plenty of shit for flys to lay their eggs on.

Organic or what!

juicyjolly · 10/08/2009 19:36

Just had a quick scan at the OP and then at just a few of the replies.
Now, just by going on what has been written by the OP on this thread I dont see why everyone seems to be trying to attack her.

I think she is just trying to say we live in a wasteful society.
We do, dont we?

Do you all think its ok to be as wasteful as 'we' are when so many in the world die every minute of every day from thirst and hunger?

Is there something I have missed?

KembleTwins · 10/08/2009 19:38

If precut veg is now part of the problem, where does that leave chips? Surely the undeserving poor would fall apart if they weren't allowed chips, or had to make their own out of actual potatoes.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 19:38

nybom - I think the point is that, if you take the deserving/undeserving route lots of people can appear undeserving (to you or other people set up to think that way) until you get to know them... Are you seriously suggesting people want to be poor or make bad choices?! GAAAAAAAAH!

sarah293 · 10/08/2009 19:38

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sarah293 · 10/08/2009 19:40

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