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to not understand why so many poor people... PART 2

1000 replies

nybom · 10/08/2009 11:59

As things have calmed down a little now, despite DH getting involved , I will try and explain once more what I meant to express by OP.

It boils down to:

I have noticed that in this society a lot of money is spent unwisely/for luxuries and increasingly so. This does indeed occur, as many of you have pointed out, regardless of level of income, throughout the social stratum. What I don't understand is, how the very poor people spend/are able to spend money on luxuries whilst compromising on the basic requirements (such as nutritious food for their children). The examples I mentioned were from my circle of friends, not generalisations.

I was bringing up examples from poor people because if a wealthy person fritters his income away for luxuries it doesn?t affect basic requirements such as food, (at least I have never ever come across anybody), however if you don't have any money to spend, it does.

Before you get enraged, I'm not addressing poor people as a whole, I don?t mean disabled people or people with poor health (mental or physical), nor people made redundant, nor women (or men) left by their partners, or any one else who unexpectedly and by now fault of his or her own has got him- or herself into that situation. Neither do I mean poor people who indulge themselves with their own saved money or money given to them by someone else.

I don't think it is fair that MNs stereotype "the rich", and have a go at them. But how dare anyone say anything negative about "the poor". That is hypocritical.

I only listed how I spend my money to demonstrate that it can be done, not to say how ?great? I am. If I can do it anybody can.

Please don?t make any assumptions what I do or not do in RL to actively help make things better and support people in need...
And I have a great life, thank you, and not a boring one, either. But curiosity is human nature (just look at the topics of women?s magazines, don?t any of you buy those?), and if you walk through life with open eyes, you just notices things. Also, my academic background is in sociology, so I have a genuine interest in wanting to understand why people do what they do. No finger pointing or accusing intended.

Finally, I?d like to respond to some specific points which have been repeatedly been raised:

RE car engine: it is an absolute myth that it is cheaper to leave the engine on rather than turn it off and on again a short while later (ask any car mechanic). In some countries you risk a fine if you don?t turn your engine off at (certain) traffic lights/road works! They?re not doing that for the sake of it. It?s just unnecessary pollution and a waist of money! It is not a matter of ?treating yourself? if the husband waits in the car with running engine and the wife goes shopping in a supermarket (and it is not extremely cold or hot (aircon))! It?s just stupid. I don?t imply you should turn your engine off at stop and go traffic jams, but those where you come to a standstill, where after 2 or 3 minutes of nothing happening it would be wise to turn the engine off (even if you had to turn it on again in 1 minute it would save money). Same with ?popping in? at shops/dropping friend of etc...

RE kids parties: there?s nothing wrong with kids parties per se! Of course it's nice to create something fun for them. But why have branded accessories right down to the bags the kids take home? Again, extra expenditures and extra waste. A nice party isn?t made nice by spending loads! A (simple) selfmade cake (not one of those branded one with loads of artificial colouring, ugh), and a couple of party games is all the children need to be really really HAPPY. The bags are thrown away, as are most of the contents, it is cheeper and easier to use kitchen towel or plastic bags for sandwhiches plus you can choose what you put in the bags.

RE cut fruit: It is still absolutely beyond me why you would spend twice as much money (or more) for precut fruit (not tins!) if you could easily cut it yourself, particulary if you are poor and only have a 5 pound shopping budget.

The UK has become a very materialistic society (but that is a different topic), maybe I just recognise it more as I?m from a different cultural background.

OP posts:
Tamarto · 10/08/2009 18:03

Just ban fruit, saves all the bother.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 18:06

no tamarto, because the rich people deserve the fruit and should have it...

TotalChaos · 10/08/2009 18:07

at the irony of the OP moanign about the Uk being materialistic....

KembleTwins · 10/08/2009 18:09

Maybe fruit could be on the menu for tea at the Ritz? Or perhaps passes could be issued along with payslips, for those earning over, say, £60,000? Obviously proof of identity would be required.

Tamarto · 10/08/2009 18:10

Maybe the government should issue fruit on a daily? basis to those who are rich enough to be worthy.

With us poor oiks getting the fruit if we do something spectacular?

it could be used as prizes on TV shows, or would that cheapen the fruit?

Would tomatoes be included because that'll be Kebabs fucked...

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 18:15

I'd get the fruit now anyway I think, my current situation being married SAHM with husband in top tax band... Perhaps OP would like to clarify whether people would be allowed 'the fruit' if they had EVER been poor... Perhaps I would not qualify on the basis that I had previously been homeless and then a single mother on benefits despite my current economic good fortune...

I think the question I'd really like to answer is do I qualify for the fruit? Blow the rest of you...

teamcullen · 10/08/2009 18:15

I love the way Nybom has catergorised exactly which members of the poor class she is refaring to.

"disabled people or people with poor health (mental or physical), nor people made redundant, nor women (or men) left by their partners, or any one else who unexpectedly and by now fault of his or her own has got him- or herself into that situation."

Talk about How dare the poor have social ambitions. FFS what about people who have lived the last 20 years in old mining towns who were left to fend for themselves when the Torie government shut down the coal mines. With no other work availible, no support for training!

The children of these people where left to believe that they were good for nothing. The same children are now adults with their own families and are still trying to pull themselves out of poverty. Is this the "POOR" that Nybon is taking about.

Of course, I'm not just talking about the miners, there are people in every city who have been dealt the same card, of carrying on the struggle that is only normal to them.

I spent my childhood knowing every little luxury we had was got by scrimping and saving, and every family I knew was the same. I can remember my friends dad being on strike coming up to christmas, and at the age of about 8ys she knew she wasnt going to get much for christmas. Then her dad got a payment of the union and thet spent the lot on getting the kids presents, because when you know your finantial situation is so dire, you will do what you can to make things better for your kids. If that means spending money unwisly then so be it.

OP just because you have been brought up on a council estate and you still live on a council estate, doesnt mean that you want to be there or you want your kids to be there.
It also doesnt mean that those children, who already have so much stacked against them, should not be able to have some luxurys. After all whats a game console or too much money spent on a party. These are happy memories that their parents are buying for them, something that the parents probably dont have too many themselves.

dal21 · 10/08/2009 18:18

To the OP - what lljkk said. Couldnt have put it better.

This is not the place IMO to 'try and understand why people do whay they do'.

You may genuinely not mean to be insulting but I think you can see from the many comments that you are being insulting.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 18:28

oh lets not make it all serious again... boo...

Tamarto · 10/08/2009 18:31

I think you might or might not qualify for the fruit curiosity, i think you would have to sign a disclaimer to say you wouldn't give the fruit to poor people that you may or may not still be associated with.

teamcullen · 10/08/2009 18:36

sooy for getting serious again Curiosity... I just couldnt be bothered to read the whole thread again, so I knew it had probably been said but GRRRRR.

Anyway I bought precut veg tonight do you think that might be allowed as seem as were not allowed precut fruit.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 18:36

Ah, I see. That wouldn't be a problem. Having elevated myself I no longer associate with those less fortunate.

Tamarto · 10/08/2009 18:38

You bought pre cut veg?

Are you poor? because it all comes down to that tbh.

nybom · 10/08/2009 18:42

it is great how you don't even bother to properly READ what i write and just hurl abuse for the sake of it... i never said i had an IQ of 140. i never said this country was awful, it is actually great. i never said i am better then anyone. i am not superior. FGS - just ... read ... what ... i write ... i never said i DIDN't come from a poor background. you are just assuming things. don't. i'm not addressing you, i'm talking about people i know personally, and i have talked to my friends about these issues (as they raised them). they are not offended. and contrary to what you might believe, they are not happy.

btw, if you think this topic shouldn't be continued, WHY THE F ARE YOU READING IT, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, CONTRIBUTING???

teamcullen you got it sooo wrong. a typical example of not reading and totally misinterpreting a post as a result...

OP posts:
curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 18:43

what about parties for my DCs...

Am I allowed a bouncy castle for example?
A children's entertainer?
What if I wanted both?
What if some poor people's children wanted to come to the party?

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 18:46
KembleTwins · 10/08/2009 18:46

Let them come. Just don't give them strawberries.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 18:47

yes, teamcullen - the deserving poor are allowed the fruit apparently...

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 18:51

lol - hi kemble!

feel embarrassed to be caught mid mickey take - childish

Tamarto · 10/08/2009 18:51

Only if their parents were on the deseving list otherwise you will be banned from the fruit.

Or you could set them up with a knife and a pile of fruit and have them pre prepare it for the honour of being allowed to watch the other children have fun.

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 18:54

'i am not superior. FGS - just ... read ... what ... i write ... '

We did.

Are you reading what some of us wrote? Where are you from that's so great? Why aren't you asking these so-called friends of yours why they do what they do instead of starting threads about them?

You say you are coming at this from a different culture. Fair play. I am as well.

But you'd have to be dumb as a box of spanners not to realise that your tone is pissing people off.

Yet you still completely ignore that issue.

curiositykilled · 10/08/2009 18:54

ah yes, that'd be good and save me some time!

Tamarto · 10/08/2009 18:58

Well yes as if the sliced a digit off no one would mind, least of all them, they'd use it to claim something else in the future

expatinscotland · 10/08/2009 18:59

'i'm talking about people i know personally, and i have talked to my friends about these issues (as they raised them). they are not offended. and contrary to what you might believe, they are not happy. '

Then why on Earth are you whittering on about it?! FFS.

5inthebed · 10/08/2009 19:00

Good grief Op! Next you'll be complaining about poor peple buying milk, when clearly they can keep cows in their back gardens, of those big houses given to them for free from the council. And don't even get me started on fruit juices!

And where do you get the idea that poor people have a £5 shopping budget?

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